Tissue sampling?

[SimonD]

I've been soil sampling each field every 2 years to build some history. The results would appear to be accurate as it's highlighted the same areas being high each year.

What I've never done is tissue sampling. Would I get a better idea of what trace elements are needed rather than waiting for recommendations. If so when would be an appropriate time to take a sample? Plenty of green leaf in the WOSR, would a deficiency be picked up. Secondly should tissue & soil samples be carried out simultaneously?

 

[Zippy768]

Of course you would get a more accurate "snapshot" of what the plant needs at that moment in time, with a tissue test.
I have had reccomendations for trace elements in the past and I am happy to apply to an unhappy crop, also a little something at T3 (on wheat) to keep it green longer - personal preference.

The soil test shows what you have in the soil, while the tissue test will show what the plant has/needs at that particular point of the growing season.
In terms of OSR my agron has recommended some trace elements. Struggling crops = happy to follow, the forward ones, I am leaving out the trace elements. No tissue test has been done and forward crop still cracking on - pgr needed.
I may be wrong ( limited experience with osr) but spring, after the first N has hit, would be when to so a test. No doubt Boron will be reccomended

 

[SimonD]

I'd just like to identify a deficiency before it's visibly apparent and if a tissue test will do so then I think it adds something to the overall picture.
With the value of OSR and investment required its a minor cost.

Spring would make sense so I'll look to do some then.

 

[Brisel]

Who does your agronomy? Open an account with NRM/Cawood or Lancrop if you haven't already. I plan to start mine in the spring 2 weeks before a planned sprayer pass so I have time to get it done, results back & any products bought in.

Expect a boron deficiency in the autumn. I have no idea what the response will be for yield but it's quite common around here. I routinely apply boron in March with the stem extension pgr fungicide but that is without testing for it. It also stops me putting insecticide in the tank, not that I have for years anyway. It's incompatible with Mavrik. It didn't like going in with manganese and tebuconazole last year either

 

[SimonD]

I've got an account with Lancrop so can use them.
Timing advise sounds right, not planning on getting N on too early onto the OSR. I don't see the benefit in feeding the plant too much when it's gaining biomass and not going into the part we're after. Will be interested to see what's lacking as I've never tested plant tissue before.

 

[parker]

Hi Simon,
i have tissue tested for the last three years, always short of the same deficiency, so mike harrington now makes up a mix of flex fertilizer for me which i apply in the spray program in the spring , which has helped, i always view the crop as a top athlete where nutrition has to be spot on to get the best out.

 

[York]

Hi Simon,
i have tissue tested for the last three years, always short of the same deficiency, so mike harrington now makes up a mix of flex fertilizer for me which i apply in the spray program in the spring , which has helped, i always view the crop as a top athlete where nutrition has to be spot on to get the best out.

Did you ever monitor the "controll strip" as well?
Check always both, applied & not applied.
to do it professional do this:

-1 day: tissue sampling
apply foliar spray
+ 5 days: re-samples
+28 days: re sample​

that provides you with a professional overview & monitors success.
Client of us does that, has lowered >50% of the foliar sprays as long term effect is Zero. No concentrating on fixing it via soil amandmends.

How otherwise you know if you don't "squeeze" with your foliar application other nutrients?
Furthermore, to monitor effectiveness always include a "chemical Zero" plot = now fungi & insecticides. so you know it's helping to improve plant health.
A healthy plant will not be attached by diseases & bugs!
York-Th.

 

[Brisel]

Making your soil as healthy as possible is a great start, but that doesn't mean everything the plant needs is available.

You've got to wonder if testing during a drought is worth it - nothing will be available without water.

 

[Zippy768]

Expect a boron deficiency in the autumn

Just to clarify, do you mean autumn?

 

[Brisel]

Just to clarify, do you mean autumn?

Er, yes. I was looking at some results for someome else who has been tissue testing for 3 years & October osr showed a low score. No clinical symptoms though.

Whether or not you get a yield response to applying autumn boron was another matter he couldn't answer

 

[Zippy768]

Er, yes. I was looking at some results for someome else who has been tissue testing for 3 years & October osr showed a low score. No clinical symptoms though.

Whether or not you get a yield response to applying autumn boron was another matter he couldn't answer

Ah ok. Just wondered if I was missing a trick on autumn Boron. Thanks for explaining

 

[York]

if you have root larve in OSR in autumn this is caused by mineral deficiency.
Most root deseases are at4ributed to mineral deficiency.
How you want to build yield with a "rotten" foundation, your roots?
one of my mentors always ask's:
"What is your business model? Is your target to lower your loss or is your target increasing your profit"
fungicides, insecticides, growth regulators, etc. = lowering your loss
soil nutrition = increasing your profit
York-Th.

 

[SimonD]

if you have root larve in OSR in autumn this is caused by mineral deficiency.
Most root deseases are at4ributed to mineral deficiency.
How you want to build yield with a "rotten" foundation, your roots?
one of my mentors always ask's:
"What is your business model? Is your target to lower your loss or is your target increasing your profit"
fungicides, insecticides, growth regulators, etc. = lowering your loss
soil nutrition = increasing your profit
York-Th.

Very true, which is why I think tissue testing should be carried out to understand any deficiencies before they potentially impact the plant. There's a definite move towards improving soil health & an appreciation of its role, for me anyway. Profit doesn't come out of a bottle.

 

[wellingtonfarmer]

My agronomist think tissue testing is a waste of time.
He says leaf taken at different times of day will give different results, and leafs sent to different labs will give different results!

 

[Brisel]

True, so always use the same lab & sample at the same time of day to help build a picture as the season goes on. Every year will be different too.

IMO tissue testing comes with a big health warning - you will get a lot of information that needs treating with care. Some deficiencies will be transient e.g. if going through a period of lush growth following rain after fertiliser applied in a drought. Economic responses to trace element applications are very inconsistent in multi year trials.

I'm looking at this too because by the time I've seen clinical symptoms yield is probably already compromised. A patch of manganese deficiency in wheat on gravel soil in February 2017 never really recovered to yield well and was thin all season. The drought hit it badly. Was this due to that Mn deficiency or was the lack of moisture on that patch the main reason?

Would applying corrective nutrients to a better crop give you more response because you've already got better potential?

 

[SilliamWhale]

Very true, which is why I think tissue testing should be carried out to understand any deficiencies before they potentially impact the plant. There's a definite move towards improving soil health & an appreciation of its role, for me anyway. Profit doesn't come out of a bottle.

I'm very much into soil health but I totally disagree with this. Profit can come out of a bottle - its very provable it can

 

[SimonD]

I'm very much into soil health but I totally disagree with this. Profit can come out of a bottle - its very provable it can

I'm referring to application after the deficiency has been identified. How much lost yield will you get back hence asking about tissue sampling. I get that profit can be bought, late application of fungicide being an area I'll look at.

 

[wellingtonfarmer]

When is the ideal time to tissue sample then? Autumn so you know what to give the crop in the spring? In the spring so you can correct anything out of line? Or in the summer so you know what you should of given the crop and plan going forward?

 

[parker]

I only tissue sample in the spring, normally 2-3 times, it is just part of a jigsaw, but a valuable part in my opinion, when trying to reduce fungicide applications and increase plant health.