To mask up or not?

[Charlie Gill]

As I say I've had two vaccines but I definitely defend the right of someone not to have a vaccine if they don't want it. Particularly as vaccines do not reduce transmission to others. This was considered a perfectly normal viewpoint until 12 months ago.

Furthermore we know the vaccines are still in the trial stage

I'll bow out, I thought we were talking about O and the subsequent introduction of masks

 

[SilliamWhale]

Nowhere, thank goodness. But some have had high enough case rates to have overloaded their health services, mortuaries or undertakers.

Even in the places that haven't done any lockdowns or compulsory masking...

How well do you think track and trace worked?

 

[Muck Spreader]

This is not true though. There are a lot of very decent doctors and healthcare professionals being silenced or censored in the name of promoting a singular view. This is not healthy at all. There is no such thing as one science or one viewpoint - remember we had a pandemic plan before and we junked it.

Remember this is a 0.05% average chance of death even if you catch it.

But this is the same argument climate deniers use, then fail to produce any credible scientists to support them. And claiming risk of death at only 0.05% is a pointless statistic, as it's an average taking no account of age, ethnicity, pre existing medical condition or healthcare availability. Just factoring in age alone the risk of death moves from a low of 2 in 10,000 up to age 10 to 150 in 1,000 at age 85. Plus this just mortality, when you factor in the often life changing disabilities Covid is leaving hundreds of thousands with, it gets a whole lot worse.

 

[SilliamWhale]

But this is the same argument climate deniers use, then fail to produce any credible scientists to support them. And claiming risk of death at only 0.05% is a pointless statistic, as it's an average taking no account of age, ethnicity, pre existing medical condition or healthcare availability. Just factoring in age alone the risk of death moves from a low of 2 in 10,000 up to age 10 to 150 in 1,000 at age 85. Plus this just mortality, when you factor in the often life changing disabilities Covid is leaving hundreds of thousands with, it gets a whole lot worse.

Actually a lot of people called climate change deniers aren't denying the climate is changing at all - any fool knows it is and always is changing. There is however a lot of disagreement about the idea that Western societies reducing their carbon footprint will either achieve the stated aims of reducing emissions, reducing economic position/ quality of life or stablising temperature as hoped, and quite right - there should not be a settled debate. There should never be a monotheistic view - look how societies with monotheistic views functioned - bloody terrible and lots of deaths.

I agree a better statistic than 0.05% is to look through the age and medical conditions of the type of risk depending on those factors. And so to ask a child to be afraid of something that is way less than 0.05% risk of death is not reasonable. Should the obese be denied medical care for covid? Personally I'm not sure ethnicity is a big driver - in fact its possibly racist!

I don't agree covid is leaving hundreds of thousands with life changing disabilties.

 

[essex man]

But this is the same argument climate deniers use, then fail to produce any credible scientists to support them. And claiming risk of death at only 0.05% is a pointless statistic, as it's an average taking no account of age, ethnicity, pre existing medical condition or healthcare availability. Just factoring in age alone the risk of death moves from a low of 2 in 10,000 up to age 10 to 150 in 1,000 at age 85. Plus this just mortality, when you factor in the often life changing disabilities Covid is leaving hundreds of thousands with, it gets a whole lot worse.

Yes, your risk of dying increases as you get older!
Your life expectancy whatever age you are, has barely been affected by the presence of this virus and the infection of millions pre vaccines.
Hundreds of thousands with life changing permanent disabilities??? You have a link for that assertion?

 

[essex man]

Anyway enjoy donning your uniforms again people, maybe in this final battle you will defeat goldsteinism for good!
Until next time of course.

 

[SilliamWhale]

It doesn’t tell you everything, but it’s something you need to know if you’re going to manage it.

The R has been falling yet restrictions are being tightened at the moment....

 

[Charlie Gill]

Anyway enjoy donning your uniforms again people, maybe in this final battle you will defeat goldsteinism for good!
Until next time of course.

Omike

 

[DRC]

Not in the very high numbers that are currently happening they have not been!

What high numbers . The Wigan lad that collapsed in training, hadn’t been vaccinated .
Theres an holistic farm near here, where they are anti everything , including getting vaccinated . They are all very poorly with it now, including the 30 yr olds . Farm shop is shut .

 

[Highland Mule]

The R has been falling yet restrictions are being tightened at the moment....

Understand the concept of hysterisis?

 

[essex man]

The R has been falling yet restrictions are being tightened at the moment....

The restrictions are not to restrain the R number, they are to enhance our dear leader's popularity

 

[SilliamWhale]

Understand the concept of hysterisis?

And there was me thinking the decisions were evidence based....it's clear it's all about belief not evidence

 

[Highland Mule]

And there was me thinking the decisions were evidence based....it's clear it's all about belief not evidence

The clue is in the word “planning”. Some people are able to learn from the experience and knowledge of others and not need to repeat every bad thing for themselves. That’s why the armageddon scenarios can be predicted but not actually experienced. If you’re not sure how that works, go try pulling the toaster in your bath and see what happens.

 

[Cheesehead]

And there was me thinking the decisions were evidence based....it's clear it's all about belief not evidence

Sorry I thought you said before we should base things on conjecture which you seemed to support given the number of times you have used it rather than evidence

 

[essex man]

And there was me thinking the decisions were evidence based....it's clear it's all about belief not evidence

They have evidence that pretending to fight a war on a virus is popular.
The decisions are based on that.

 

[Cheesehead]

They have evidence that pretending to fight a war on a virus is popular.
The decisions are based on that.

Actually his biggest rating boost was catching covid but you'll have to ask him if he plans to catch it again to boost his ratings?

 

[essex man]

Actually his biggest rating boost was catching covid but you'll have to ask him if he plans to catch it again to boost his ratings?

Oh yes, that as well!
Especially with the whole unnecessary trip to intensive care malarkey...shameless bedblocking

 

[Charlie Gill]

Christmas number 1?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465071934245322762

 

[SilliamWhale]

Sorry I thought you said before we should base things on conjecture which you seemed to support given the number of times you have used it rather than evidence

No I think if you are a govt advocating medical intervention and social rules then it needs to be based on evidence. Ie you need a good reason for deviating from the norm or from previous plans.

I think if there are interesting patterns which may show that the decisions taken are not as good as thought then you should not attempt to bury those patterns or ignore them

 

[SilliamWhale]

The clue is in the word “planning”. Some people are able to learn from the experience and knowledge of others and not need to repeat every bad thing for themselves. That’s why the armageddon scenarios can be predicted but not actually experienced. If you’re not sure how that works, go try pulling the toaster in your bath and see what happens.

So we pretend like Neil Ferguson that everyone is equally likely to die of covid? And pretend that's a plan?

The new variant appears to have no clothes either.