To roll or not to roll

[Tarw Coch]

First thing, is it wheat or barley? AFAIK no spring options to take out meadow grass in barley, so need an autumn product on either pre or post.

What's your land like? Will this be last opportunity to travel, or are you likely to be able to spray post em? Again, the wheat or barley issue, as there are spring options for wheat.

If you're dairy with a bit of corn, then you won't have black grass. For most others, blackgrass is an issue, and residuals work better pre-em of the black grass emerging (unless very dry and warm, then could argue would work better later on,).

Negative for pre-em. As someone said, post em has higher likelihood to cause scorch. However, I've known pre-em all but kill the crop on sand with heavy rain after application. A couple of days post rain gives the active more time to adhere to the soil particles, and reduces it getting washed down to the crop roots. Actives adhere to clay particles better than sand, hence why a risk on sand.

A few mm of rain after application is perfect, as helps spread chemical across soil surface. Ball-park figures, depending on how moist soil is...... 3-9mm is perfect, 9-15mm is OK, 15-25mm is more than I'd want, 25-40mm is far too much and will wash it down on sand.

As you point out, possibly need to go back with insecticide and manganese. Mix can get a bit hot if not careful, but it saves a sprayer pass if you're not targeting blackgrass. Manganese scorches for fun. Liquid Mn is better than powdered.

^^^^^^ my thoughts anyway. Someone with more knowledge might have other things to add (or a different opinion altogether!!).

Got both wheat and barley, the barley is following wheat, it was supposed to be re seeded but lack of time and catchy weather meant I made a decision about 10 days ago that a half s half decent crop of barley was better than a poor late re seed, the re seed would need more working to get a smooth field for future years as opposed to one pass to power harrow and drill for the barley.
The wheat is following a spring barley and pea whole crop mix, again it was destined to be re seeded but I had put off re seeding until the hedges were cut in September but the only decent few days of weather we had at beginning of September we were combining/getting the straw so that got missed too.
A little disappointed not to get any grass in but a decent crop of wheat/barley is more use to me than a poor re seed

 

[DRC]

Got both wheat and barley, the barley is following wheat, it was supposed to be re seeded but lack of time and catchy weather meant I made a decision about 10 days ago that a half s half decent crop of barley was better than a poor late re seed, the re seed would need more working to get a smooth field for future years as opposed to one pass to power harrow and drill for the barley.
The wheat is following a spring barley and pea whole crop mix, again it was destined to be re seeded but I had put off re seeding until the hedges were cut in September but the only decent few days of weather we had at beginning of September we were combining/getting the straw so that got missed too.
A little disappointed not to get any grass in but a decent crop of wheat/barley is more use to me than a poor re seed

You can get a derogation easily enough to cut hedges early for a reseed or OSR.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Pre-em on first- if it's anything like around here there is no guarantee you will travel later. You will also get better control this way also (it's also tamer on the crop).

The fact you have two sprayer passes is neither here nor there. I'd sooner put manganese in with the aphicide than herbicide.

Your priority as a dairy farmer is using the wheat/crop to clean up your ground ready for the next one. Dirty stubbles and grass weeds do not aid you in that. You want to be looking around at your paddocks and working out which ones aren't that productive any more and putting them into wheat. At some point in the future you may look around and find you don't want to tear anything up for a year or two because it's all productive. At that point you can buy some wholecrop etc in, no point in ploughing up stuff that is good.

Lastly, don't baulk at the use of atlantis, ally etc on your land- they are useful and will be cleaning your dirt up in the longer term. Ideally you should end up with a clean stubble that you can min-till grass into very readily. Killing docks etc in wheat is a doddle.

Yes, one of the aims of the arable is to refresh older pastures/take out weeds, usually go out of grass to maize, then wheat before re seeding again. I can’t foresee a time when I won’t be looking to plough up grass, I’m getting older so when I fancy semi retirement, the stock numbers will decrease and the arable acres will increase.

 

[Tarw Coch]

You can get a derogation easily enough to cut hedges early for a reseed or OSR.

In fairness I’m not sure I’ve missed any great opportunities to reseed in August,

 

[KB6930]

View attachment 1141449
Drilled a couple of fields of winter barley on Saturday and wondering wether to get them rolled tomorrow before rain Wednesday or leave till the spring. Ground conditions were reasonable but certainly not perfect for barley with the very odd damp patch. Having a glorious day today and the top has dried out nicely so do I take advantage of the current weather or would it be better left till spring ?
Could also ask the same question of a couple of fields of wheat but I guess that would be more tolerant of wheelings.
Just thinking if rolled would give less opportunity for slugs to hideView attachment 1141459

Why think you'll need to leave it till spring ?

We've probably 150 acre not rolled yet but as soon as it's through and dry enough on top it'll be rolled . We tend to drill on the deep side and we're bad for capping so tend to stay off with the rollers when we get to the last of it till it's through the ground .

 

[Brisel]

I roll whenever possible. My soils are not prone to capping and bkackgrass means there is an expensive herbicide stack that works best on as small a surface area as possible. Wheat after osr has a massive slug pressure too.

Rolling makes it harder for soil pests like slugs and leatherjackets to move around.

 

[Wombat]

If it wasn’t as bloody sticky as it is I would give everything a good roll

 

[Andy12345]

If a set of Cambridge rolls will travel without picking up personally I'd get it rolled. Less slug damage, pre em will do a better job, combine man will thank you next harvest etc etc !

 

[Kevtherev]

I would Roll

 

[Zippy768]

I would Roll View attachment 1141595

"No, no, no Rodney. I'll buy the sandwiches.......cos you bought the Rolls"

 

[robs1]

Do plain Cambridge rollers pick up less soil than those with breaker rings, my set are heavy but are barstewsrds for picking up soil, as we don't plough now I wonder if it would be better swapping for a plain set.

 

[teslacoils]

Too tender. Will get done in spring anyway.

 

[Huno]

cambridge rolls allow you to go when heavy ballast rolls dont... now turn those tunes on before it really rains

 

[Brisel]

Do plain Cambridge rollers pick up less soil than those with breaker rings, my set are heavy but are barstewsrds for picking up soil, as we don't plough now I wonder if it would be better swapping for a plain set.

 

[Brisel]

The breaker rings move between the main rings which should help keep them clean. Worn ones have more movement so don't shim them up too tight.

 

[john63]

We always roll, if it will go without sticking to the rolls. 95% of the time we manage it, despite being on heavy land. We always use pre-em (Crystal and Jade) on wheat/barley (sometimes ends up as peri-em), but we don't use any insecticides.

 

[Bigjon44]

View attachment 1141449
Drilled a couple of fields of winter barley on Saturday and wondering wether to get them rolled tomorrow before rain Wednesday or leave till the spring. Ground conditions were reasonable but certainly not perfect for barley with the very odd damp patch. Having a glorious day today and the top has dried out nicely so do I take advantage of the current weather or would it be better left till spring ?
Could also ask the same question of a couple of fields of wheat but I guess that would be more tolerant of wheelings.
Just thinking if rolled would give less opportunity for slugs to hideView attachment 1141459

Amazing.no need to roll that

 

[teslacoils]

Forecast was for us to just catch Wednesday rain and dodge Friday's.....

..now it's getting both. So pleased I've not rolled. It's in deep enough to be rolled of, miraculously, we get no rain

 

[robs1]

The breaker rings move between the main rings which should help keep them clean. Worn ones have more movement so don't shim them up too tight.

That's what I thought but my set are a bugger for picking up soil especially behind the tractor wheels, that's behind our simtech

 

[Tarw Coch]

Well, I’ve got it all rolled today, dust coming off the rollers. There was a couple of sticky patches in the barley fields I went around, probably less than a football pitch in total out of 35 acres of barley, the wheat ground was all grand.

Can’t see the dust rising in the first photo but it was definitely there.
Thought it better to go around the wet spot in the second photo