to vaccinate sheep v not to vacinate

[Chasingmytail]

Heptavc P etc

I am not educated enough to be persuaded either way. OH thinks its a waste of time and unnecessary if the sheep and lambs are mob grazed. Years ago we used to but whether we were at risk is another thing.

You lose lambs no matter what but is there a serious risk with not vaccinating young stock? Stock on good grazing, low stress, low stocking. We lamb outside May. Is there a risk of pneumonia when weaning much later in the year?

Not to be bombarded with what the pharmaceuticals are telling us can anyone in the know state either way on this?

 

[bovine]

Not to be bombarded with what the pharmaceuticals are telling us can anyone in the know state either way on this?

There is no good evidence showing a cost benefit of vaccination for clostridial disease or pasturella.

The issue is the risk is impossible to calculate. I've diagnosed countless outbreaks of clostridial disease in unvaccinated animals. I've dealt with big pasturella outbreaks in unvaccinated animals. I have never seen big losses in the properly vaccinated flocks from either (you will always get some fail to respond to any vaccine).

If I had sheep then with what I have seen I wouldn't hesitate to vaccinate (although I think I'd use Bravoxin in spring and Ovipast in summer). You have to think of it like insurance - you hope you will never need it, but without it you could lose your business. Personally I think it's a small price to pay with the huge costs if everything goes wrong.

Watching lambs die of lamb dysentery is not nice.

 

[Bwcho]

Definitely not in the know...but I'll share this with you, on that understanding.

With this year's lambs (April lambing), near enough 50% were vaccinated twice with Heptavac P and the other were not given anything. This was not intended to be a trial, but looking back, it was an interesting one nonetheless. Apart from half being vaccinated, they were all ran, treated, and weaned exactly the same together. There were no differences at all in losses.

I too have questioned whether the vaccination is worth it, however, on balance, I will continue to do so. Using the sales reps time proven argument of "how many do you need to lose before it will pay for itself". If for nothing else, I will continue doing it for the peace of mind it offers, especially later on in the season.

However, previously I would stress whilst religiously waiting for the younger lambs to reach 3 weeks, so that they could all be vaccinated at the same time. In future, I won't be. They'll get done when it's suitable, when they're over 3 weeks and when they're going to be handled anyway.

Just to clarify and to avoid confusion as well, the P part of the vaccine is Pasturella and not Pneumonia.

 

[Bwcho]

There is no good evidence showing a cost benefit of vaccination for clostridial disease or pasturella.

The issue is the risk is impossible to calculate. I've diagnosed countless outbreaks of clostridial disease in unvaccinated animals. I've dealt with big pasturella outbreaks in unvaccinated animals. I have never seen big losses in the properly vaccinated flocks from either (you will always get some fail to respond to any vaccine).

If I had sheep then with what I have seen I wouldn't hesitate to vaccinate (although I think I'd use Bravoxin in spring and Ovivac in summer). You have to think of it like insurance - you hope you will never need it, but without it you could lose your business. Personally I think it's a small price to pay with the huge costs if everything goes wrong.

Watching lambs die of lamb dysentery is not nice.

Can I ask you @bovine to clarify the Bravoxin in Spring and Ovivac P in summer comment (sorry, it's been a long week) ?

Would that be a first jab of Bravoxin followed by a second jab of Ovivac?
Or a 'full course' of primary and booster vaccination of both Bravoxin and then Ovivac P?

 

[bovine]

I meant to say Ovipast not Ovivac. I will edit.

I would vaccinate for pasturella in the summer.

 

[Chasingmytail]

I've diagnosed countless outbreaks of clostridial disease in unvaccinated animals. I've dealt with big pasturella outbreaks in unvaccinated animals. I have never seen big losses in the properly vaccinated flocks from either (you will always get some fail to respond to any vaccine).

What was/is the main culprit of an outbreak? Again if flock is low stock, organic mob grazed, low stress on good grazing lambed in May is the risk minimal? Surely if figures are accumulated off flocks that are continually grazing on same land with high stocking and poor grazing surely this would be a higher risk or am I asking too many questions that just dont have the answers?

 

[bovine]

We don't know. Sometimes it's obvious to identify a cause, but then you'll go one day and find 20 dead sheep on a lovely sunny day from pulpy kidney or pasturella. That's when it really costs you.

 

[KMA]

I wouldn't hesitate to vaccinate, they have enough ways of snuffing it (sometimes demonstrating remarkable levels of inventiveness) without giving them any more excuses. Not sure what my son uses but I think he changed it last year. He certainly had wormer resistance to one product last summer.

 

[mikep]

We missed one group last year through timing issues and had no problems all spring and summer.......
At the first autumnal foggy spell we started losing lambs from pasturella vaccinated and they stopped dying a few weeks later. Lost non since (kept ewe lambs), not worth the worry so vaccinate as you can't control the trigger factors like weather.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

In my case, mountain farm, it's quite simple, if the ewe lambs go off to winter without the full course, a proportion of them will die. So, el get their first jab when drawing the rl in July and the second when drawing drafts in August. That means approx 4 wks between jabs and more than 4 wks after 2nd when they go to winter in October. Changed from Covexin to HP after a pasturella storm which the vet said was caused by the dry dry summer when they had been grazing so near the soil line they had been picking up soiled vegetation. The black flock which live on the lowland get a booster before lambing but the 2 mountain flocks don't, except for the first lambers which are on the in bye. With mountain flocks you have to consider the costs of gathering.

 

[Chasingmytail]

interesting thanks. I have been here for 12 years and for about the first 5 yrs there was a flock of around 500. I have talked about this and we cant remember ever losing lambs in numbers. Always lost lambs but never in batches.

Seems to be a split in yes/no. Prob stick with the no for now.

 

[pauld]

Vaccinate against everything here, hep,enzo,toxo and footvax. Still get problems but they are fewer and manageable and a lot less antibiotics used.

 

[2YardOfLard]

With this year's lambs (April lambing), near enough 50% were vaccinated twice with Heptavac P and the other were not given anything. This was not intended to be a trial, but looking back, it was an interesting one nonetheless. Apart from half being vaccinated, they were all ran, treated, and weaned exactly the same together. There were no differences at all in losses.

That reminds me of an old bloke I knew who'd tell anyone who'd listen that he's smoked for 60 years so that proved it doesn't harm you.

(Not getting at you - I hear that you're still vaccinating.

 

[2YardOfLard]

Not worth the risk of not doing it. These diseases are unpredictable, impossible to completely prevent in other ways, and potentially devastating. The vaccines are cheap & effective. Even to a tight-wad like me it's a no brainer.
You can save a bit by using Ovivac-P in anything you'll sell before winter & just use Heptavac for keepers.