Trialling outdoor lambing. Any tips?

[kfpben]

My 70 year old neighbour has decided he can't face lambing at his age so has 20 in lamb Suffolk ewes to sell. Due 15th April onwards. I have seen them everyday for the past year and they look good, healthy sheep.

I currently lamb indoors but was thinking of lambing the twins outside next year, with the singles and triplets remaining inside. This seems like a good opportunity to try outdoor lambing without going the whole hog with my own 240 ewes.

The neighbour's ewes are in lamb to a Texel- do you reckon hung lambs will be a problem? My Charollais tups are very easy lambing so I'm a bit concerned about a potentially big shouldered texel. Practically speaking- do you take them out of the lambing field as they lamb and take them to a ewes and lambs paddock? Or just tag them, ring them and leave them be? If you leave them in the same field how bad does the mismothering tend to be from the ewes who haven't lambed yet?

Finally- what's a fair price for in lamb shearling ewes- £150 if scanned with twins?

 

[Al R]

£150 could be steep but probably not if this close to lambing and you know the full history etc..

We outdoor lamb, after years of chasing singles that had gone too fat on grass with hung lambs we decided to move them inside in the lean2 next to the triplets so we can wet adopt easier etc. Triplets predominately kept in except the welsh which don't like sheds really. All triplets and singles are outside in the daytime for a stretch and to get some grass in them.
All twins are outdoors, we have them at 5/acre so got flocks of 8ewes up to 36ewes and never really have mis mothering, got a triplet that was indoors that wouldn't stop hassling the lambs so she's gone out with a bunch due 2 weeks later than she is.
We do the navals asap after birth, and then once 4-6hrs old we will ring, number etc. Almost everything is left in the field it was born in until 2-3 weeks old and then flocks start getting merged into mobs for rotational grazing.
Even outdoor lambers have to bring some in. People visit and must think lambing is a nightmare, it's only the problems they see (skinnings, poorly looking lambs etc) anything which is ok is left out, even the bad weather we've had the last few days we've only brought 1 ewe in and that was because she lambed both twins backwards at 6pm so it was safer just to have her in, she'll be back out tomorrow.
With outdoor lambing at least there is an 'off' switch when it goes dark you don't do much with them until the morning.

@neilo @Nithsdale Farmer

 

[neilo]

I'm keeping out of it as there was mention of Suffolk ewes in lamb to Texel tups. I'll only get accused of running breeds down again if I comment.
Good luck with them.

 

[Nithsdale]

£110-£120 would buy them - going from the 3000 in-lamb ewes i saw sold at Longtown 4 weeks ago.

It's hard to tell, without seeing the tup, or ewes, if they will have lambing difficulties. Managed well, no - you shouldn't (on the whole) have issues. But, again, without knowing the breeding (not just the breeds) we can not comment.

I lamb everything outside. Once lambs are up and going i make sure they've sucked and are full, then rubber band and number (the twins). They are then left to their own devices. I don't shift them or do anything until a few days old. But for 20 ewes i wouldn't bother moving them out atall.

Miss mothering shouldn't be an issue, either - even if they all lamb in the first cycle, they will be spread over 2 1/2 weeks. Youl average 1 a day...

 

[Tim W]

Even outdoor lambers have to bring some in

Is that so? Doesn't happen here or a multitude of other places I know

Out door lambing essentials for me are:
1) keep them lean
2) Leave them alone

 

[Guiggs]

Surely you could bring the 20 in this year if you buy them, seeing as you don't know anything about the tup you're better safe than sorry?
Next year you can experiment with outside lambing using proven ewes you know the history of!

 

[Bury the Trash]

Is that so? Doesn't happen here or a multitude of other places I know

Out door lambing essentials for me are:
1) keep them lean
2) Leave them alone

comments like those are where the easycare myth starts.


for someone who knows exactly what they are doing and with a clear planned strategy from the start,yes, ...

but otherwise it will be neglect and poor animal welfare.

 

[Tim W]

comments like those are where the easycare myth starts.


for someone who knows exactly what they are doing and with a clear planned strategy from the start,yes, ...

but otherwise it will be neglect and poor animal welfare.

Yes, I will agree that you have to have some idea of what you are doing . But in the absence of time (inclination) to write an essay I would still go by the two outdoor lambing essentials of lean and leave
The ''leave them alone'' bit is the most difficult for many shepherds to come to grips with--- the indoor/intensive lambing systems can make many into control freaks and outdoor lambing is more about trying to use the ewes natural ability

 

[Man_in_black]

Even outdoor lambers have to bring some in.

Mine don't. Never. Ever. Don't have the facilities to, grazing spread all over so they are left to it.

Have hurdles set up in each field in case anyone is silly. Multiples on best grass, rotated then singles in. Keep singles tight on grazing & condition score to.keep an eye.

I certainly wouldn't have any issues with animal welfare! They are sheep that are farmed & cared for outside all of their life.

 

[Tim W]

I currently lamb indoors but was thinking of lambing the twins outside next year, with the singles and triplets remaining inside. This seems like a good opportunity to try outdoor lambing without going the whole hog with my own 240 ewes.

The neighbour's ewes are in lamb to a Texel- do you reckon hung lambs will be a problem? My Charollais tups are very easy lambing so I'm a bit concerned about a potentially big shouldered texel. Practically speaking- do you take them out of the lambing field as they lamb and take them to a ewes and lambs paddock? Or just tag them, ring them and leave them be? If you leave them in the same field how bad does the mismothering tend to be from the ewes who haven't lambed yet?

@kfpben come and see if you like? Lambing from 10th April I think , you would be welcome !

 

[Bury the Trash]

Yes, I will agree that you have to have some idea of what you are doing . But in the absence of time (inclination) to write an essay I would still go by the two outdoor lambing essentials of lean and leave
The ''leave them alone'' bit is the most difficult for many shepherds to come to grips with--- the indoor/intensive lambing systems can make many into control freaks and outdoor lambing is more about trying to use the ewes natural ability

yes.




when things are going well it's the space that is the no. 1.. huge benefit outside,......to lamb .. they can get away naturally on their own ........without ,as indoors, relying on others having to move away ,or as soon as that lamb stands up.....the mix ups / mismothering ,lamb crawled away into a nook and cranny ..begins.

 

[kfpben]

I'm keeping out of it as there was mention of Suffolk ewes in lamb to Texel tups. I'll only get accused of running breeds down again if I comment.
Good luck with them.

Haha yes, wouldn't be my first choice of breeds. Still they are available 200 yards away and are good healthy sheep.

 

[Bones]

Mine don't. Never. Ever. Don't have the facilities to, grazing spread all over so they are left to it.

Have hurdles set up in each field in case anyone is silly. Multiples on best grass, rotated then singles in. Keep singles tight on grazing & condition score to.keep an eye.

I certainly wouldn't have any issues with animal welfare! They are sheep that are farmed & cared for outside all of their life.

What breed do you keep

 

[Al R]

Is that so? Doesn't happen here or a multitude of other places I know

Out door lambing essentials for me are:
1) keep them lean
2) Leave them alone

It's hard to keep them lean when the only way we can achieve this is locking them in a shed and feeding hay only! Singles this year are slipping out for the first time ever. Twins with us which have been out all winter on grass only are having bigger lambs than singles.

I know someone who tried a "NZ" system lambing he said, I know a lot of kiwi's are doing it right so I'm not stereotyping but what your basically saying it put the ram in, take them out, take the lambs out at weaning and that's all you do to them? The guy I knew who did this had 200 strong welsh ewes at tupping, at weaning he had 50 runty ewes left and 60lambs. He was stopped from keeping stock after that as the ewes were dieing with lambs hanging out of them as he was told to "leave them alone". Every time a ewe died he said his lambing percentage went up :0

 

[Top Tip.]

Advice for outdoor lambing,have at least 2 pairs of good oilskins.

 

[Man_in_black]

What breed do you keep

Lleyn & Welsh mountain. Currently.

 

[scottish-lleyn]

[QUOTE="Al R, post:I know someone who tried a "NZ" system lambing he said, I know a lot of kiwi's are doing it right so I'm not stereotyping but what your basically saying it put the ram in, take them out, take the lambs out at weaning and that's all you do to them? The guy I knew who did this had 200 strong welsh ewes at tupping, at weaning he had 50 runty ewes left and 60lambs. He was stopped from keeping stock after that as the ewes were dieing with lambs hanging out of them as he was told to "leave them alone". Every time a ewe died he said his lambing percentage went up :0[/QUOTE]
the person you know was an idiot and deserves to be banned from keeping stock. Im pretty hands off at lambing i manage to get round the lambers about 2 times a day. I treat them very hard but i would never allow a situation where a ewe was dying with lambs hanging out of it. Its just not on!! If a ewe needs lambing lamb it and cull it and its offspring in the summer. I worked in new zealand for a few years and what you are discribing is not a nz system its cruelty. Rant over

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

We've been lambing outside the last few years ok, but last year we had one bunch of ewes that we lost a lot of live lambs off to crows, the ewe would be ok with the lambs, go in for lunch, come out lambs would be lay about with intestines hanging out, we're just getting going now, went down field this morning nice double just dropped, went again few hours later, both lambs on their feet, but one looking hunched and obviously in pain, picked him up and a great hole where his @rse should have been,no intestines to be seen, don't know how he was still breathing, different ewes to last year, I think we'll be back inside next year, I think I understand why people went to indoor lambing.

 

[Guiggs]

We've been lambing outside the last few years ok, but last year we had one bunch of ewes that we lost a lot of live lambs off to crows, the ewe would be ok with the lambs, go in for lunch, come out lambs would be lay about with intestines hanging out, we're just getting going now, went down field this morning nice double just dropped, went again few hours later, both lambs on their feet, but one looking hunched and obviously in pain, picked him up and a great hole where his @rse should have been,no intestines to be seen, don't know how he was still breathing, different ewes to last year, I think we'll be back inside next year, I think I understand why people went to indoor lambing.

I had a ewe lamb drop 2 lambs outside last year under the tree the f**king ravens nest in, the nasty badstards had the tongue out of one and both had stab marks all over them...i hate Corvids as much as I hate badgers!

 

[Al R]

[QUOTE="Al R, post:I know someone who tried a "NZ" system lambing he said, I know a lot of kiwi's are doing it right so I'm not stereotyping but what your basically saying it put the ram in, take them out, take the lambs out at weaning and that's all you do to them? The guy I knew who did this had 200 strong welsh ewes at tupping, at weaning he had 50 runty ewes left and 60lambs. He was stopped from keeping stock after that as the ewes were dieing with lambs hanging out of them as he was told to "leave them alone". Every time a ewe died he said his lambing percentage went up :0

the person you know was an idiot and deserves to be banned from keeping stock. Im pretty hands off at lambing i manage to get round the lambers about 2 times a day. I treat them very hard but i would never allow a situation where a ewe was dying with lambs hanging out of it. Its just not on!! If a ewe needs lambing lamb it and cull it and its offspring in the summer. I worked in new zealand for a few years and what you are discribing is not a nz system its cruelty. Rant over[/QUOTE]

He'd read it in a textbook that it was easier to lamb outside and let them get on with it. He's not someone I'd say I knew really, but met him a few times. the pub would always take
Priority!

I don't think a miss presentation where they need pulling is genetic but I've never followed it?