tups pushing teeth forward

[alwayslearning]

Could this be a management issue.
We run 30-35 tups of various breeds.
Tips rarely go past 4 year old without throwing there over the front of the pad and ending up getting culled.
It's expensive and all sorts of tups are guilty for it.
Ewes are bad enough but alot better than tups.
Pulling unchopped round bale silage out?

 

[neilo]

Do you cull them because they get overshot, or because they are so badly overshot that they go poor?

All sheep's teeth tend to move forward with age. I'm always more concerned when a lamb is over, as it will only get worse. Grazing will tend to move them back, whilst heavy concentrate feeding will push them forward. Never heard of pulling silage having any effect though.

 

[GTB]

It's more to do with breeding than feeding. I always like to buy older maternal breed tups if possible. If they still have good mouths at 4/5 yrs old then their offspring should be the same.

 

[neilo]

It's more to do with breeding than feeding. I always like to buy older maternal breed tups if possible. If they still have good mouths at 4/5 yrs old then their offspring should be the same.

The first Texel ram I ever bought was close to the front of the pad as a lamb. By the time he was a shearling, his teeth completely missed the pad (although he still did fine on just grazed fodder). As he was bought to retain daughters, I was a bit nervous of this, and made a point of mouthing every one before tupping them as shearlings. Not one was wrong in the mouth.

 

[GTB]

What I'm trying to say is that older sheep with good mouths are the ones we should be breeding from. Most sheep have good mouths as lambs/shearlings but go down hill from there.

 

[alwayslearning]

Cull them because there poor.
Not often when there over they are fit on rough pp
Always pick tups that are good on the pad as shearlings because alot are not.
Big shock was a couple modern maternal bred tups are nearly to the edge at 3 year old.
Could run terminal tups on with bad teeth with plenty of hard feed but they end up in shocking condition by the end of tipping in January

 

[hendrebc]

Low calcium can cause teeth issues

 

[Wolds Beef]

@neilo The way teeth go and muscling are genetically linked. Some high index suffolks had there teeth forward even as lambs! We would cull them straight away!!
Richard would make a point of looking at everyone as young lambs.
WB

 

[neilo]

@neilo The way teeth go and muscling are genetically linked. Some high index suffolks had there teeth forward even as lambs! We would cull them straight away!!
Richard would make a point of looking at everyone as young lambs.
WB

I can’t say that i’ve Seen any connection between muscling and teeth issues, but maybe there is a connection 8n different breeds/lines within breeds?

My first draw for culls is on testicles, teeth and feet, with everything wrong leaving at slaughter weight. Next draw is on cosmetic appearance/type/confirmation. After that, I may look at pedigree and ebvs, to weed a few more out, but functionality traits first, always.

 

[alwayslearning]

Low calcium can cause teeth issues

Can you test for calcium?

 

[hendrebc]

Can you test for calcium?

I dont know but i would have thought so. My issue was/is ewes losing teeth while they are still young which is a classic sign of chronic low calcium in ewes apparently. It was happening only in my twin rearing ewes on one block of ground and soil tests (not done because of the sheep) on that block came back very low in calcium that and the losing teeth was enough for me and the vet to decide calcium could be the issue. Im going to try and give them some calcium in blocks with limestone flour after they have lambed and till after weaning this year to see if it makes a difference to the cull rate. It still might be a genetic problem here but calcium is looking more likely from what weve pieced together. I didnt test because the ewes that had lost their teeth were already culled and any that hadnt likely had enough reserves stored in their skeleton to not show as low or that was my thinking the vet didnt mention testing either thinking back.
Low calcium can make their teeth loose or even their bottom jaws become deformed. The easiest calcium for the sheeps body to mobilise from the skeleton is in the bottom jaw thats why it can cause problems.

 

[gatepost]

Never heard of connection between muscling and bad teeth, but plenty of connections with ram lamb production and sales where teeth are well forward if not off pad, and people buying their new pedigree stock tups based on figures or looks , but rarely on physical soundness, I look for tup lambs that are well back on their pads. but nutrition and how that is delivered obviously will have a big effect on longevity.

 

[Ysgythan]

A ram on permanent pasture and no grub should not have his teeth going forward early. I suspect your tups are short of selenium. One of the symptoms is bone weakening and if the jaw bone weakens it elongates taking the mouth forward. So feeds that are oily (coarse mix) or high in goitrogens (cabbage, clover, new leys) soak up the selenium causing the issue. If your land is short of selenium they may not be getting enough even from the grass in your permanent pasture. I’d blood test for iodine and selenium and if short dose regularly or bolus them to correct it. Feeding them will just make it worse as selenium is a poison at low levels so the dietary route is ineffective as they can’t get enough that way.

 

[alwayslearning]

Selinium is not a known issue.
Iodine was rock bottem in a blood test that was done few years ago but never could tell any difference in performance when it was and was not supplemented

 

[Ysgythan]

Selinium is not a known issue.
Iodine was rock bottem in a blood test that was done few years ago but never could tell any difference in performance when it was and was not supplemented

Down to you, but I’d be supplementing iodine somehow.

 

[alwayslearning]

Price E="Ysgythan, post: 4882142, member: 8724"]Down to you, but I’d be supplementing iodine somehow.[/QUOTE]
Price they are I will now.
Never heard of the link between teeth and trace elements before