Twice a boy, once a man.... Every farmer should be taught this!!

[farmerm]

169K views · 3.4K reactions | Twice a boy | “Twice a boy, once a man” In our recent Q+A podcast Cammy shared one of his favourite quotes for farming. Credit to Ian Brown of Bellshill Farm,... | By Fed By Farmers | Facebook

“Twice a boy, once a man” In our recent Q+A podcast Cammy shared one of his favourite quotes for farming. Credit to Ian Brown of Bellshill Farm,...

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[Lazy Eric]

Why can’t father and son both be men? There’s another saying….” It’s amazing what my father has learnt the older I’ve got” said a young guy.

Be really careful you young bucks, wanting to tell old man when he’s only in his 60s to move aside and do as you told… you can ruin your parents lives if not carful with feelings of rejection,resentment and depression.
I’ve seen it, it’s horrible.
Work with your parents, enjoy working together if you can. My dad is gone, would give anything for his opinion, his constructive criticism , his very dry humour , his unspoken pride for you that he would never utter. and the fact he was always there to talk to and understand the problem in hand.

 

[Flatlander]

Why can’t father and son both be men? There’s another saying….” It’s amazing what my father has learnt the older I’ve got” said a young guy.

Be really careful you young bucks, wanting to tell old man when he’s only in his 60s to move aside and do as you told… you can ruin your parents lives if not carful with feelings of rejection,resentment and depression.
I’ve seen it, it’s horrible.
Work with your parents, enjoy working together if you can. My dad is gone, would give anything for his opinion, his constructive criticism , his very dry humour , his unspoken pride for you that he would never utter. and the fact he was always there to talk to and understand the problem in hand.

Very well said.

 

[farmerm]

Why can’t father and son both be men? There’s another saying….” It’s amazing what my father has learnt the older I’ve got” said a young guy.

Be really careful you young bucks, wanting to tell old man when he’s only in his 60s to move aside and do as you told… you can ruin your parents lives if not carful with feelings of rejection,resentment and depression.
I’ve seen it, it’s horrible.
Work with your parents, enjoy working together if you can. My dad is gone, would give anything for his opinion, his constructive criticism , his very dry humour , his unspoken pride for you that he would never utter. and the fact he was always there to talk to and understand the problem in hand.

If young buck gets to the point of having to tell the old man to move aside, old man has completely and utterly missed the point of this message Both parties can easily ruin the lives of the other. I have seen good transitions or responsibility and I have seen other cases where young buck is himself in or approaching his 60s and is barely allowed to made decisions. From what I have seen succession works best when old man has hobbies outside of farming and works worst when farming is the old mans only interest in life.

Incidentally my farther is gone too.

 

[ploughman1963]

I love working with my lads and love seeing them take more control/responsibility- sometimes without them even realising it. They still have the good grace to ask me what i think and tgere is often a discussion on the merits of an idea but increasingly the idea has been well thought through and is sound so just a nod. Feels very much like 3 of us working towards a common goal now which makes me very happy

 

[Nearly]

I've a farming friend (and his son) that I've used as an example to my son what I never want us to become like. So far so good.

 

[steveR]

I've a farming friend (and his son) that I've used as an example to my son what I never want us to become like. So far so good.

Think most of can think of someone like this....

 

[BenSimons]

I try my best to speak to my dad but I can’t. I realise one day I may regret not speaking to my dad now but I can’t let my wall down. He hasn’t spoken to me about anything except what he wants me to do for him for 40 years. Every question I have ever asked has been met with a shake of the head, a rolling of the eyes or a “don’t be so stupid”. Who knows what life will be like when he is gone and what regrets I might have. I feel that he does have a responsibility to communicate with me about his thoughts and plans for the future, to be proud of me and my family, and to give me responsibility also. You could argue that he does this in his own “way”. But if he cannot communicate this with me then it’s not good enough. My wall stays up.

 

[Nearly]

You know him, we don't but don't let history repeat itself with the next generation.
Quietly aim to be better than him in any way you can.

 

[Lazy Eric]

You know him, we don't but don't let history repeat itself with the next generation.
Quietly aim to be better than him in any way you can.

Very true.

 

[Lazy Eric]

I try my best to speak to my dad but I can’t. I realise one day I may regret not speaking to my dad now but I can’t let my wall down. He hasn’t spoken to me about anything except what he wants me to do for him for 40 years. Every question I have ever asked has been met with a shake of the head, a rolling of the eyes or a “don’t be so stupid”. Who knows what life will be like when he is gone and what regrets I might have. I feel that he does have a responsibility to communicate with me about his thoughts and plans for the future, to be proud of me and my family, and to give me responsibility also. You could argue that he does this in his own “way”. But if he cannot communicate this with me then it’s not good enough. My wall stays up.

Yeah try not to be the blue print of your dad… you’ll not change him now I know.
Very common in farming families I’ve seen.
My dad and uncle wouldn’t talk to each other, my older brother wouldn’t talk to me. Just witnessed the brick wall all my life and thought that’s how it’s to be…. My dad gone now we could sort of get on and talk as we got older. My brother on the other hand a complete closed book to us both. He still a partner in business and still a closed book. Not well now so takes very little part day to day. Used to really bother me , not anymore, feel nothing for him which I know is sad. Really spoilt my working life as I let it.

 

[crashbox]

Why can’t father and son both be men? There’s another saying….” It’s amazing what my father has learnt the older I’ve got” said a young guy.

Be really careful you young bucks, wanting to tell old man when he’s only in his 60s to move aside and do as you told… you can ruin your parents lives if not carful with feelings of rejection,resentment and depression.
I’ve seen it, it’s horrible.
Work with your parents, enjoy working together if you can. My dad is gone, would give anything for his opinion, his constructive criticism , his very dry humour , his unspoken pride for you that he would never utter. and the fact he was always there to talk to and understand the problem in hand.

Totally character-dependent.

Tough to have two captains of the ship.

Especially so if business performance is not satisfactory (e.g. struggling to pay the bank, working to hard for too little, lack of time with family/friends, etc.).

So, it's a choice of:
A) "let the next generation have ago".
B) carry on in charge, hoof the young 'un out, and carry on the way you always have.

It takes courage and humility to stand aside and say "it's time for them to prove themselves".

Ironically, the future of the business is often more in jeopardy of the top generation doesn't.

 

[BenSimons]

Totally character-dependent.

Tough to have two captains of the ship.

Especially so if business performance is not satisfactory (e.g. struggling to pay the bank, working to hard for too little, lack of time with family/friends, etc.).

So, it's a choice of:
A) "let the next generation have ago".
B) carry on in charge, hoof the young 'un out, and carry on the way you always have.

It takes courage and humility to stand aside and say "it's time for them to prove themselves".

Ironically, the future of the business is often more in jeopardy of the top generation doesn't.

Absolutely… my dad’s decision to not let me have anything to do with the management of the farm has had a profound effect on me and my family, we have had to disassociate ourselves with the farm more and more, I’ve learned that I can make more money easier outside of the farm, it’s hard for me to see things go downhill on the farm, buildings falling apart fences etc and now I’m reluctant to involve my children too much in the farm because I know he will do the same to them if they are interested. It’s my job to keep them away from it and show them that a world exists outside of the farm. Who knows what this means for the future of the farm, I never imagined that this would happen but we have to adjust, there’s no other Way.

 

[crashbox]

Absolutely… my dad’s decision to not let me have anything to do with the management of the farm has had a profound effect on me and my family, we have had to disassociate ourselves with the farm more and more, I’ve learned that I can make more money easier outside of the farm, it’s hard for me to see things go downhill on the farm, buildings falling apart fences etc and now I’m reluctant to involve my children too much in the farm because I know he will do the same to them if they are interested. It’s my job to keep them away from it and show them that a world exists outside of the farm. Who knows what this means for the future of the farm, I never imagined that this would happen but we have to adjust, there’s no other Way.

Unfortunately you are not alone.

Two things that help;

- Accepting that it is their asset, and if they choose to manage it in a sub-optimal manner, that is their prerogative.
- Being independent, i.e. independent income, career, home, so that their choices do not directly impact you.

 

[Henarar]

So much easier to get on with folk than fall out,
everyone is different and will do things a different way
I was only 25 when my Dad died and he was still very much in charge and only right that he was,

 

[crashbox]

So much easier to get on with folk than fall out,
everyone is different and will do things a different way
I was only 25 when my Dad died and he was still very much in charge and only right that he was,

True.

And sometimes that means walking away, in business terms.

 

[Henarar]

True.

And sometimes that means walking away, in business terms.

Or at least find out where you stand

 

[BenSimons]

God points… for me it’s not about “being in charge”. Its more about knowing where you stand, what the plan is, what he’s thinking, finding a way to work together, communicating and compromising for each other. I’m certainly not perfect, but the difference is I’m able to admit it, but my dad never would.
I left agricultural college 20 years ago and my dad had never spoken a word to me except about what job I need to do tomorrow. I spoke to him candidly once a few years ago, he said something like “the farm comes first, before anything else”. I argued that family is more important and farm comes second and that was that, but at least I had an answer.

 

[crashbox]

I was only 25 when my Dad died and he was still very much in charge and only right that he was,

Must have been a very difficult time.

Very lucky to still have mine around. It's too easy to take family for granted.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

the very best thing i did was leave the farm and get a normal (ish) job, i returned when specifically when asked to, and when i was asked to do more and more i said i cant do both.

Either i leave my job and work full time as a partner with a proper wage/profit share or i will have to peruse my job,

That focuses everyone's mind and makes for a reasonable 'deal' which is fair for everyone, i will never let my children work on the farm without have a proper job first, its all valuable life experience and stops complacency from both sides.

Ben that sounds awful, i genuinely would move on as hard as it might be.