UK average salary!!...where do you fit in?(without subsidies)

[Farmer Roy]

Things must be going well in Aussie if you have staff to peel the prawns, it's a bit tougher in NZ. I have to gut my own fish.

sh!t - sorry to hear that . . .

 

[caveman]

sorry but that's just an excuse for not making a profit.
The BPS would be there whether you farmed the land or not. that's why it shouldn t be included.

Thought the presumption was that the person declaring the income did have the land in hand?
Try telling the tax man that it's not farm business income that contributes towards profit...... or should be ignored to show a bigger loss to carry forward to a more prosperous year.
Try telling the dept for work and pensions that it should be excluded, in order to create a small enough margin or even a loss, to enable you to qualify for working tax credits or whatever it's called.
But as said.
It has nothing to do with whatever might be drawn out of the farm business and therefore classed as part of a salary package.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

But the money would not all come from the farm business, which thus alters how that business can be run because it is not being drained via drawings.

It's an interesting topic because I've been all sides of this - as a high-earning spouse pumping money into developing a business, to a working partner, and back out the other side as a low-earning/retired spouse.

And the fact that both I and Mrs PBH worked when I was employed enabled us to live a different lifestyle, and buy a nicer house, than if just I had been working. It' not so different.

 

[lazy farmer]

Thought the presumption was that the person declaring the income did have the land in hand?
Try telling the tax man that it's not farm business income that contributes towards profit...... or should be ignored to show a bigger loss to carry forward to a more prosperous year.
Try telling the dept for work and pensions that it should be excluded, in order to create a small enough margin or even a loss, to enable you to qualify for working tax credits or whatever it's called.
But as said.
It has nothing to do with whatever might be drawn out of the farm business and therefore classed as part of a salary package.

sorry there still just excuses for getting up in the morning with the sole intention of losing money.

 

[coomoo]

My take just turned 36 with near he haw subs is get rid. Having a neighbor gathering up £1-2m In subs for the last god knows how long has distorted this area. Now I ain’t complaining I love the drive it gives me but it’d make the playing field even.

 

[Still Farming]

Thought the presumption was that the person declaring the income did have the land in hand?
Try telling the tax man that it's not farm business income that contributes towards profit...... or should be ignored to show a bigger loss to carry forward to a more prosperous year.
Try telling the dept for work and pensions that it should be excluded, in order to create a small enough margin or even a loss, to enable you to qualify for working tax credits or whatever it's called.
But as said.
It has nothing to do with whatever might be drawn out of the farm business and therefore classed as part of a salary package.

Stupid really as even if under the personal tax criteria personally, accounts often prevent or help other issues .

 

[Walterp]

And the fact that both I and Mrs PBH worked when I was employed enabled us to live a different lifestyle, and buy a nicer house, than if just I had been working. It' not so different.

Quite.

A UK farmer in a sensitive sector such as livestock can be as efficient (or as inefficient) as he likes, the durability of his farm business is dictated by his and his family's personal circumstances more than by anything else.

If, in a future re-make of 'Planet of The Apes', a single surviving livestock farmer is discovered farming in a remote valley, he will be happily pottering about muttering about 'a level playing field' whilst his wife brings in the salary upon which they live.

The only downside, in my experience, is that instead of doing what he is told by the WAG he will, instead, have to do what his wife tells him instead. (Usually seen by outsiders when he is on the point of retirement.)

 

[Bossfarmer]

Ps - have you noticed the results of your thread pole so far ?

Ie most seem to be over 50k which is far in excess of the national average wage and that’s before mention of living in some fantastic locations and houses and 20 second commutes etc compared to the average paye “wage slave” with his oh so enviable job in the bank etc

im smart enough to realise most of the upper end profit makers >50k are false after i did a similar poll and it turned out almost everyone on this forum owned more than 1000 acres, luckily i set it so i could see the voters and 95% of them i knew to not even be farming/tenanted its the ones voting in the lower end that interest me there are a significant amount and unlike the top end you can bet theyre the honest ones

 

[Bossfarmer]

Subs have been on the go for 40years, and every farm in Britain is glad to see it in the bank. In 2015 when payments weren't made till February there were a lot of worried farmers up here and very late accounts needing payed. I don't care if your a family farm getn 25 grand or a big estate getn 200 is all needed, if what we produce was a fair price then subs could stop tomorrow.

this is exactly my point it was mayhem up here supply companies werent getting paid etc etc if the sub hadnt come many would have bn in trouble, mabye down in england they dont need them though that could be the solution

 

[Bossfarmer]

Hypothetically now if debt is rising but increased profit is not reflected by the investment.
Debt rises in year 1: OK, work out where and why it rose, bad trade, poor weather, new shed etc.
Debt rises again year 2: OK sit down again with an envelope and last years fag packet and pin point exactly why its risen for a second year and plan what needs to change to reverse trend and what it will cost.
Debt risen again year 3: you need to give yourself a good talking too. Either you have large expansion program built up over a number of years or there's something seriously wrong with your business plan as waiting for a good year to clear the debt might never happen.
Debt risen again in year 4: Stop what you are doing!. Your current farming practice is not working and your loosing money! Financially this is not sustainable for a business to survive long term especially with an uncertain trading future. You have just wasted 3 years to sort the problem and put your self in a weaker position. Seek help immediately or alternatively beg for more sub from the tax payer and carry on. Agriculture is a business!

this is what will happen to most scottish farms if subs go, read post above

 

[Lincoln75]

im smart enough to realise most of the upper end profit makers >50k are false after i did a similar poll and it turned out almost everyone on this forum owned more than 1000 acres, luckily i set it so i could see the voters and 95% of them i knew to not even be farming/tenanted its the ones voting in the lower end that interest me there are a significant amount and unlike the top end you can bet theyre the honest ones

You do realise farmers can distort their real income figures quiet legally for tax avoidance (not evasion) ? you`ll never get a true figure , not even off HMRC, better to make a quick calculation on those you know , whats the rental value of the farm house? what vehicle do they drive (HMRC charts value this) who pays for fuel and maintenance both on vehicle and house , this alone could be worth £15k pa before the farmer draws any cash , then theres food benefits such as meat , do they get it for free ? could be worth £2.5k pa , free vegetables could be worth £800 pa and so on , the benefits of living on /owning a farm may well be worth close to £20k before any cash is drawn, those with families will no doubt be drawing tax credits as the cash amount(salary) they draw may be low , this benefit could be £10k pa so there we have a possible £30k pa before any tax is even paid , sounds quite attractive to me.

 

[Still Farming]

You do realise farmers can distort their real income figures quiet legally for tax avoidance (not evasion) ? you`ll never get a true figure , not even off HMRC, better to make a quick calculation on those you know , whats the rental value of the farm house? what vehicle do they drive (HMRC charts value this) who pays for fuel and maintenance both on vehicle and house , this alone could be worth £15k pa before the farmer draws any cash , then theres food benefits such as meat , do they get it for free ? could be worth £2.5k pa , free vegetables could be worth £800 pa and so on , the benefits of living on /owning a farm may well be worth close to £20k before any cash is drawn, those with families will no doubt be drawing tax credits as the cash amount(salary) they draw may be low , this benefit could be £10k pa so there we have a possible £30k pa before any tax is even paid , sounds quite attractive to me.

Some accountants know or do F all ?

 

[Suffolk Serf]

im smart enough to realise most of the upper end profit makers >50k are false after i did a similar poll and it turned out almost everyone on this forum owned more than 1000 acres, luckily i set it so i could see the voters and 95% of them i knew to not even be farming/tenanted its the ones voting in the lower end that interest me there are a significant amount and unlike the top end you can bet theyre the honest ones

Believe what you like. I know my own circumstances, with next to no subsidy and not inherited anything beyond a capacity for hard work.

 

[Still Farming]

this is exactly my point it was mayhem up here supply companies werent getting paid etc etc if the sub hadnt come many would have bn in trouble, mabye down in england they dont need them though that could be the solution

But will they learn or gear up for it -NO.

 

[Farmer Roy]

You do realise farmers can distort their real income figures quiet legally for tax avoidance (not evasion) ? you`ll never get a true figure , not even off HMRC, better to make a quick calculation on those you know , whats the rental value of the farm house? what vehicle do they drive (HMRC charts value this) who pays for fuel and maintenance both on vehicle and house , this alone could be worth £15k pa before the farmer draws any cash , then theres food benefits such as meat , do they get it for free ? could be worth £2.5k pa , free vegetables could be worth £800 pa and so on , the benefits of living on /owning a farm may well be worth close to £20k before any cash is drawn, those with families will no doubt be drawing tax credits as the cash amount(salary) they draw may be low , this benefit could be £10k pa so there we have a possible £30k pa before any tax is even paid , sounds quite attractive to me.

I believe I have been very open & honest about my finances in this thread
some others haven't been so willing

 

[Derrick Hughes]

this is what will happen to most scottish farms if subs go, read post above

Where are they finding money to pay for hay and straw at current prices

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Tesco employ a lot of people. Should we subsidise TESCO? I mean, they would be able to sell food cheaper if we did that?

I may be wrong, but I believe we as a nation are subsidising companies like amazon, with working families tax credits, allowing them to pay a wage that people cant live on

 

[Bossfarmer]

What makes you think in business terms you should be making 6 figures? You don't seem to be able to grasp the basic fundamentals of running a business.
A business is not entitled to a return on capital or entitled to cost plus on the products produced and sold, financial returns are down to how well the business operates and producing to a higher standard or more economically than your competitors if you cannot do the above look for another career.

each industry has a rough ROTA for its businesses, its used for benchmarking etc

 

[Fossil]

I may be wrong, but I believe we as a nation are subsidising companies like amazon, with working families tax credits, allowing them to pay a wage that people cant live on

That’s why the minimum wage is increasing

 

[Farma Parma]

Where are they finding money to pay for hay and straw at current prices

Yeah good point wheres the job rough at now? must be north of £100/t easily for decent straw?
No Inc any del charges