Urea in the seedbed for spring barley

[ollie989898]

Normally start in March. Just depends on weather. Never put any in Jan/Feb. Still cows in light land fields that are sown first.

Ok, so similar to what would be done around here. I've known the big farms in the arable areas of the South start in Jan/Feb but it would be on free draining land.

 

[Chae1]

Ok, so similar to what would be done around here. I've known the big farms in the arable areas of the South start in Jan/Feb but it would be on free draining land.

@slim shiny has started already!

 

[Spencer]

@slim shiny has started already!

Combining ?

 

[Brisel]

How did you get on with 100kg/ha or Urea down the spout with SBarley? Did you follow it up with another dose?

I'm thinking of trying it this year in a split hopper DD Avatar disc drill. 100kg of 46% urea would give me 46 units of N at drilling. So I would have to spread the rest after drilling. Makes me think what's the advantage if I've got to still go out with the Fert spreader? Could the total rate of N be reduced because I'm accurately placing N with the seed? Or could I up the rate to 200kg/ha (92 Units of N) and save an operation with the spreader? Or is there some middle ground between the two. Say 150kg/ha of urea (70units of N) down the spout and don't top up and save an operation with the spreader and a bit of N?

My tactic last year was to spread 90-100 units of N (Nitram not Urea) on the seed bed after drilling with a rapid at 500 seeds/m2. I also DD one field after grazed turnips. The yields were all fine with both methods.

Why change it? Well I now have a drill that can apply Fert down the spout so if it can be used to remove another operation then great and I think putting it on with a drill must be more efficient? I also have a lot more urea this year because it was cheaper per unit of N than AN. Urea takes longer to dissolve so it may be better in the slot than stilling on top.

How does the fertiliser placement work on your Avatar? Into the same pipe as the seed?

The Australians put urea fertiliser down the spout with the seed without any problems, though top dressing over there is rare due to the temperatures. I can’t remember the dose but it wasn’t a big one.

I intend to put around 30 kg/ha N down the spout at drilling but my drill puts it below the seed depth with the leading tine.

 

[Banana Bar]

Minimum of 50% of my N goes down the spout with spring barley. I will try some at 100% this year.

 

[Brisel]

Minimum of 50% of my N goes down the spout with spring barley. I will try some at 100% this year.

What fertiliser product will that be?

 

[Spencer]

How does the fertiliser placement work on your Avatar? Into the same pipe as the seed?

The Australians put urea fertiliser down the spout with the seed without any problems, though top dressing over there is rare due to the temperatures. I can’t remember the dose but it wasn’t a big one.

I intend to put around 30 kg/ha N down the spout at drilling but my drill puts it below the seed depth with the leading tine.

We put 66kg of N as a Urea/AS blend with Mzuri last spring. All crops came up fine with no ill effect. After crop was up, no dead zones were seen in inspection pits in seed row. Might try higher rate this spring

 

[Brisel]

We put 66kg of N as a Urea/AS blend with Mzuri last spring. All crops came up fine with no ill effect. After crop was up, no dead zones were seen in inspection pits in seed row. Might try higher rate this spring

Fertiliser down the breaker leg, an inch or two deeper than the seed?

 

[Chae1]

I'd a bit of a blonde moment when putting drill on and got pipes mixed up when drilling rye.

Front hopper, blowing seed and fert back in seperate pipes. So fert came out disc Coulter meant for seed and fert dropped out pipe behind it.

Came fine, couldn't see any difference in establishment. Just no tramlines.

 

[Spencer]

Fertiliser down the breaker leg, an inch or two deeper than the seed?

Yes, in the soil there is usually about 3” of separation.

 

[ajd132]

I’ve put 100 kgs of N in the form of both AN and urea down the spout in the last and it was fine.

 

[Banana Bar]

Minimum of 50% of my N goes down the spout with spring barley. I will try some at 100% this year.

straight urea or Amidas

 

[ajd132]

straight urea or Amidas

I’ve done with omex N33 liquid and with amidas not normal urea to be fair but only small areas to try it.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Because you mentioned 46 units n. Units of n is a per acre thing

1 unit here is one kg

100kg / ha of urea is 46 units

Thanks for your replies. With the info above and other reading I have done on US forums I think it's just too risky and it doesn't really save me time or money, as I still have to go over again with the spreader after drilling.

If you could get the urea a couple of inches benith the seed at the point of drilling it wouldn't be an issue. Well that's what some people do elsewhere with success.

Thanks all.

We will apply large amounts of urea / N at planting, but it is always separated from the seed, either below or beside the seed row. Highest down the spout at very narrow rows ( 4.5 inches ) that I’ve heard of for wheat is 100 kg urea or 46 units of N.
On our more normal, wider row spacings of 250 - 333 mm spacings, then more like just 10 - 20 kg / units of N

Quite common for us to pre - sow urea / N months prior to planting, but we have clay soils with high OM levels, so get very little leaching or movement of N through the soil profile

with our row crops on 1 metre spacings, then side dressing N after planting / emergence is always an option as well.

personally, I’d be very hesitant to put much N in contact with the seed

 

[Terrier]

Dad used to put 4 hundy weights an acre of 20.10.10 down the spout back in the day . That would be 100kgN/h by my maths so don't see why urea would be any different as it's slower releasing anyway

The issue with urea compared to other forms of N is that it produces ammonia which is damaging to the emerging seedling. The higher the rate, the higher the ph, the closer to the seed, the worse it gets.

 

[Pebd99]

Last year I put 125kg ha of 34.5 down the spout in the same slot as the barley. Worked fine. Wanting to try liquid n this spring coming.

 

[Chae1]

Last year I put 125kg ha of 34.5 down the spout in the same slot as the barley. Worked fine. Wanting to try liquid n this spring coming.

We used liquid N this spring for first time. Wouldn't really describe it as a game changer.

Have bought another load for this spring. It seems expensive in comparison to granular.

 

[Pebd99]

We used liquid N this spring for first time. Wouldn't really describe it as a game changer.

Have bought another load for this spring. It seems expensive in comparison to granular.

Just switching to liquid this next year. Does seem expensive to granules just now. Don’t think they’d be happy if I cancelled 10 loads. Did you put liquid n on with the drill or chasing the drill with the sprayer?

 

[Chae1]

Just switching to liquid this next year. Does seem expensive to granules just now. Don’t think they’d be happy if I cancelled 10 loads. Did you put liquid n on with the drill or chasing the drill with the sprayer?

Put it on osr, winter barley. Grass/silage and spring barley.

Just put it on through sprayer at same time I would normally put granular on.

Wouldn't say I saw any yield drop, but definitely no increase. If it was same price as granular would buy liquid. But not worth paying a premium for it in my opinion.

Mainly urea this year, will put liquid on later sown spring barley and last application N on winter crops.

 

[Huntstreet]

How does the fertiliser placement work on your Avatar? Into the same pipe as the seed?

The Australians put urea fertiliser down the spout with the seed without any problems, though top dressing over there is rare due to the temperatures. I can’t remember the dose but it wasn’t a big one.

I intend to put around 30 kg/ha N down the spout at drilling but my drill puts it below the seed depth with the leading tine.

Separate tank but the same spout.