Using beans as cover crop in second wheats

[RAG]

Is it practical/economic to use early sown winter beans as a cover crop for later drilled second wheats/ spring wheat?

Scenario- pre harvest Roundup first wheat, Norfolk, range of soil types.
Harvest wheat, bale/clear straw (for own livestock),spread FYM,drill 200kg/ha winter beans asap in late August. Beans at 250 quid/tonne=50 GBP/ha.
Drill with Mzuri Protill, with legs deep enough to remove harvest/ muckspreading compaction, and semi-incorporate the muck.
Leave until mid November/December, Roundup off and drill second wheat between rows of beans with same drill, but front tines very shallow/out. Whack any blackgrass, no expensive Latitude.
OR
Leave till Feb/March, apply autumn graminicide if nescassary.then spray off and drill spring wheat between rows, with drill applied fertiliser if needed.
OR
Could you drill the wheat into the beans in the autumn, and then take them out with a herbicide in the spring?

Will the cost of drilling the beans and the seed be outweighed by the increased fertility/ nitrogen of the cover crop, or have they not had enough time to fix N? Thanks, RAG.

 

[Clive]

Why use beams at £50/ha when a proper multi species @Pedders cover is about £25/ha and better ?

Other than that a sound plan IMO

 

[Robigus]

Why use beams at £50/ha when a proper multi species @Pedders cover is about £25/ha and better ?

Other than that a sound plan IMO

It looks like he's in Brazil, haulage may be a problem. I know Pedders is priced well but that may be asking too much.

 

[Clive]

It looks like he's in Brazil, haulage may be a problem. I know Pedders is priced well but that may be asking too much.

Good point ! Must be cover seed suppliers in Brazil though I guess

 

[RAG]

Good point ! Must be cover seed suppliers in Brazil though I guess

Didn't know Pedders mixes were as cheap as that, what seed mixture would I get for that sort of money?

Still would like to know if you think the advantages outweigh the cost, for NORFOLK (it's very close to Suffolk, Robigus).

 

[Elmsted]

Didn't know Pedders mixes were as cheap as that, what seed mixture would I get for that sort of money?

Still would like to know if you think the advantages outweigh the cost, for NORFOLK (it's very close to Suffolk, Robigus).

Only a straight query. RAG but if I where to suggest that your location might be east Anglia UK, Is that a fair thing or an outrageous suggestion

 

[Elmsted]

Good point ! Must be cover seed suppliers in Brazil though I guess

Rudolf the king of No till comes from around there.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Rudolf the king of No till comes from around there.

Do mean Rolf?

He's a German born in Chile but residing in Paraguay.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Why not grow the beans?

 

[Robigus]

Didn't know Pedders mixes were as cheap as that, what seed mixture would I get for that sort of money?

Still would like to know if you think the advantages outweigh the cost, for NORFOLK (it's very close to Suffolk, Robigus).

OK, OK. I know where Norfolk is, (don't get me started.) But even in Suffolk we don't spell it B.R.A.Z.I.L.
If in Norfolk (that's n.o.r.f.o.l.k.) then give @Pedders a call.

 

[Elmsted]

Do mean Rolf?

He's a German born in Chile but residing in Paraguay.

Around south America. Broad brush strokes.

 

[Clive]

Do mean Rolf?

He's a German born in Chile but residing in Paraguay.

how old is he ? Older german gentlemen that live in south america concern me !!

 

[SilliamWhale]

how old is he ? Older german gentlemen that live in south america concern me !!

Well no nothing what your thinking...loads of Germans out there. Half of Chile is German I should think.

Actually as an aside when I went to see him we went on a trip for a few days into deep Farming country in Paraguay to meet some no tillers etc. This part of Paraguay has only relatively recently been deforested and mainly it was by farmer's of Brazilian extraction who came over in the early 80's because Paraguay was very cheap land for clearing. As we were travelling along he did point out as we were passing a bungalow which was Josef Mengele's house for a little while...

 

[Elmsted]

Paraguay was very cheap land for clearing. As we were travelling along he did point out as we were passing a bungalow which was Josef Mengele's house for a little while...

Ah hence the forage harvester and global warming as the rainforest is decimated by no tillers.

 

[RAG]

Only a straight query. RAG but if I where to suggest that your location might be east Anglia UK, Is that a fair thing or an outrageous suggestion

Currently farming in Bahia, Brazil, but have interest in family farm in less sunny Norfolk, where have recently bought said Mzuri drill, hence interest in future cropping options.

 

[RAG]

Why not grow the beans?

The reason I was interested in beans as a cover crop, is because the forum seems to be littered with examples of cover crop establishment failures, for a variety of reasons. Too wet, too dry (common post harvest in E. Anglia),and especially slugs.
I thought that maybe beans would be a robust, home saved seed alternative, drilled relatively deep into moisture post combining, that they would be immune to most of the pitfalls.
But the question remains; will they do enough good in 2.5/3 months if followed by WW, or 6 months if followed by SW, to outweigh the cost of growing them. Perhaps a faster growing mix more suitable for the first situation.
Please advise, but I will also be enquiring of Pedders for his recommendations.
P.S- I also know the legend John Landers, who I believe you've met, a remarkable man.

 

[SilliamWhale]

The reason I was interested in beans as a cover crop, is because the forum seems to be littered with examples of cover crop establishment failures, for a variety of reasons. Too wet, too dry (common post harvest in E. Anglia),and especially slugs.
I thought that maybe beans would be a robust, home saved seed alternative, drilled relatively deep into moisture post combining, that they would be immune to most of the pitfalls.
But the question remains; will they do enough good in 2.5/3 months if followed by WW, or 6 months if followed by SW, to outweigh the cost of growing them. Perhaps a faster growing mix more suitable for the first situation.
Please advise, but I will also be enquiring of Pedders for his recommendations.
P.S- I also know the legend John Landers, who I believe you've met, a remarkable man.

Ah ok I think you must be the guy he has mentioned? Is your first name Rob? I think he said you were from Essex if so? What are doing out in Brazil? - I'm sure you could tell us some stuff?

I would say a multispecies cover crop has to be the best option depending on what comes before or after the WW. Mixing warm season and cool season broadleaves and grasses - covering all bases then. Just as cheap too. Most people had bad cover crops last year because most people had bad everything last year - growth pretty much stopped 1st September with me, and it wasn't to too clever before that. I wouldn't expect it to be this bad 8 years out of ten.

Listen to this for some good ideas on multi species cover (american but the principles the same):
http://brownsranch.us/?id=13
http://agriculturalinsights.com/episode-035-gabe-brown-on-cover-crops-no-till-and-livestock/

 

[RAG]

Ah ok I think you must be the guy he has mentioned? Is your first name Rob? I think he said you were from Essex if so? What are doing out in Brazil? - I'm sure you could tell us some stuff?

I would say a multispecies cover crop has to be the best option depending on what comes before or after the WW. Mixing warm season and cool season broadleaves and grasses - covering all bases then. Just as cheap too. Most people had bad cover crops last year because most people had bad everything last year - growth pretty much stopped 1st September with me, and it wasn't to too clever before that. I wouldn't expect it to be this bad 8 years out of ten.

Listen to this for some good ideas on multi species cover (american but the principles the same):
http://brownsranch.us/?id=13
http://agriculturalinsights.com/episode-035-gabe-brown-on-cover-crops-no-till-and-livestock/

Yes, but definitely not from Essex!
Doing cattle, dryland sorghum,irrigated maize/onions. Used to do melons/tomatoes but mega stress no thanks.
Clearing land, planting buffel grass for grazing. Starting feedlotting in 2014. Tried DD, but found strip till better, now starting strip tilling in UK.
Bought farm in 2007,with some mates, ahead of new law in 2010 preventing gringos buying up Brazil, they were getting very worried about the Chinese. Farm next door to 54,000ha irrigation project, canals built but damn slow to finish, then hoping to cash in.

Thanks for the advice on covers, RAG.