Vacuum Silage

[CDavidLance]

Bales Pod and Sheet Seam demonstration
Yesterday I finally had everything together to make that video. A Bales Pod was used to show the use of new Silage Sheet Seam and old Strip-Seal and test both the Sheet Seam and the BL42 Side Channel Blower. It is heaps better quality than the 1986 VHS salvage videos. Narration throughout.
Two of the more stunning sequences show just how much shrinkage you get at each of the vacuum stages. The Bales Pod was sited with some steps in the background and so it is easy to see how much shrinkage happens at each stage. It showed me that most of the work has been done by 200 mbars of vacuum. The effect between 200 and 280 mbars is just detectable, but hard to see.
Silage Sheet Seam appears to work every bit as well as the old Strip-Seal, and maybe better on the containment of positive pressure. Most of this is shown in the video. A lot of technical details on how to use these sealing products are also shown.
Hay bales are bound to have a lot of air in them and the ones used shrank by about 20 % in each direction and that is a volume reduction of about 50 % so this video is quite a dramatic demonstration of vacuum extraction from forage. The small pod also means that it all happens very quickly. The visual sequence of how sheets and seals heave around under vacuum is useful for those new to using vacuum extraction and predicting how seals need to be made.

 

[CDavidLance]

How much will the commercial product cost £/m?

There is now a price for this on the YVCS website on the Silage Sheet Seam page. It has been set at a level that is a little lower than the cost of two inch MDPE water pipe. We will see how that goes.
If you would like to report back to this thread then it can be publicised, but I am not supposed to give you quotations on this thread. The supplies are finally flowing after problems before Christmas.

 

[davidroberts30]

Bales Pod and Sheet Seam demonstration
Yesterday I finally had everything together to make that video. A Bales Pod was used to show the use of new Silage Sheet Seam and old Strip-Seal and test both the Sheet Seam and the BL42 Side Channel Blower. It is heaps better quality than the 1986 VHS salvage videos. Narration throughout.
Two of the more stunning sequences show just how much shrinkage you get at each of the vacuum stages. The Bales Pod was sited with some steps in the background and so it is easy to see how much shrinkage happens at each stage. It showed me that most of the work has been done by 200 mbars of vacuum. The effect between 200 and 280 mbars is just detectable, but hard to see.
Silage Sheet Seam appears to work every bit as well as the old Strip-Seal, and maybe better on the containment of positive pressure. Most of this is shown in the video. A lot of technical details on how to use these sealing products are also shown.
Hay bales are bound to have a lot of air in them and the ones used shrank by about 20 % in each direction and that is a volume reduction of about 50 % so this video is quite a dramatic demonstration of vacuum extraction from forage. The small pod also means that it all happens very quickly. The visual sequence of how sheets and seals heave around under vacuum is useful for those new to using vacuum extraction and predicting how seals need to be made.

amazing the power of the atmosphere (or lack of)

 

[davidroberts30]

How much will the commercial product cost £/m?

Silage Sheet Seam — Yalland Vacuum Compressed Silage

www.yallandvacuumcompressedsilage.uk

 

[CDavidLance]

amazing the power of the atmosphere (or lack of)

Just goes to show what pressure we're all under.

 

[CDavidLance]

Further to what I wrote about most of the evacuation being complete at 200 mbar, this is a sequence of four still images taken when the Sheet Seam Test was being conducted. The images are taken at 0 mbar, 100 mbar, 200 mbar and 280 mbar, at moments guided by the vacuum gauge. The vacuum gauge is readable at the bottom of each image.
The pump extracted to 100 mbar at 16 seconds, 200 at 30 seconds and 280 mbar at 57 seconds on the Strip-Seal test. The video isn't continuous on the Sheet Seam test due to a camera glich, so it can't be timed.

 

[CDavidLance]

The other test that is not on the video was blowing up the pod instead of extracting it down. This was to simulate the Carbon Dioxide Response and check that Silage Sheet Seam could withstand positive pressure as well as staying sealed under vacuum. The Sheet Seam was still sealed under the pressure shown in the image. This is far higher pressure than occurs naturally with the Carbon Dioxide Response.
One interesting result was that Strip-Seal popped open at a test pressure below that handled by Sheet Seam. In our history we have never had Strip-Seal pop open on a clamp during the Carbon Dioxide response. The test pressure must therefore have been higher than the natural pressure required and so Sheet Seam appears to exceed the strength of Strip-Seal, and that in turn is more than required to contain a natural Carbon Dioxide Response.

 

[CDavidLance]

So after post #366 and the video, it is easier to see what happens from stack to vacuum clamp between these images.

 

[CDavidLance]

Can the strip seal be bent round the corners.....just wondered what you would do when you reach the end of the clamp

These images come from the Bales Pod and Sheet Seam Tests. The cornering ability of Strip-Seal is shown in the image. Silage Sheet Seam is just as flexible and was used just after this test. I don't have a still image of that but you can see it in the video.

 

[oakfarm]

Images of new Silage Sheet Seam are below. The material composition is still being worked out, but the channel shape, tube colour and function are now settled so here are two images showing what it looks like.
There will be an advertisement in the Farmers Weekly when samples are available

View attachment 994635View attachment 994636

WHEN will this be avaliable to buy looking at giving it a trial also the link to the vac pump further on in the chat where can you buy one

 

[CDavidLance]

WHEN will this be avaliable to buy looking at giving it a trial also the link to the vac pump further on in the chat where can you buy one

The production run of 30 rolls of Silage Sheet Seam is currently in progress and it will be available from the end of next week. The Sheet Seam page on the YVCS website is being kept up to date and that is where the ordering can happen. I can't take orders through this Forum Thread.
I have just updated the Vacuum Extraction Information page on the YVCS website with the contact details for the company that supplied the BL42 pump to me. So all the information that you request is now there.

 

[CDavidLance]

Reply to @oakfarm in response to
"hi we are very intrested in this method for our opti cut we setting up where would you buy the sealing strips from
have you your website link again ive lost it with the vinmo videos
whats the max do you think u can try clamp in one go"

The maximum size of a clamp is governed by how much wilted grass you can bring in in one day on your farm. The very strong recommendation on YVCS is that the second day pick up is sheeted down and pumped down the same day and never opened again until feeding out several months later.
If a contractor is involved in the harvesting then you may get in up to 300 tonnes and that is where the One Day Silage Bay came from. Smaller and novice operations might think about one field at a time.

 

[CDavidLance]

Getting what you want from an electric Vacuum Pump.
The big bales pod test yesterday gave one really interesting result for the performance of the BL42 Side Channel Blower. It was being run off a tractor mounted generator in a field well away from civilisation. I didn't know that you can get what you want out of one of those generators and I didn't know that the pump would go through a range of performances depending on what the generator was sending through. I do now.
The generator could put out a variable frequency from 50 Hz to 60 Hz depending on tractor revs through the PTO. So we experimented with that and found that the BL42 could easily extract down to 320 mbars vacuum at the full 60 Hz rating and gave us exactly 280 mbars at 54 Hz. This was all because of the resulting speed of the pump electric motor and it did all of these things without heating up or struggling. A heavy duty 50 m extension lead was between the two appliances.
It also means that tractor mounted generators require fine tuning to give out exactly what you want. The generator can be set up according to the vacuum gauge on the pump to produce exactly the conditions you want to apply to the silage stack.
Before anybody tells me you shouldn't go playing around with these variables, it actually happens all the time. You do not always get the same out of your domestic plug sockets from one day to another. The electric motor is rated at more than 10,000 hours and will not wear out for more than a century so it might as well be set up and used for what you want while you're still alive! And I don't want to hear from the BL42 Preservation Society, thank you.

 

[Bury the Trash]

No indeed .

Talking about generators I suppose it depends what is available but a 5 kw at least 'self engined' genny would be needed for the motor pump i reckon , because its not so much the running but the starting up of it and you don't want a genny to be to close to its limit running for a couple of hours either.
Other than that i guess it depends on how accurate the gauges/meters are on a generator and it has a fixed governor on its engine to the the alternator at a pre set/designed rpm ( like smaller genny's are usually are in my limited experience ) instead of a pto one which will be on a tractor not with a fixed speed of course.

pity they don't put a nice variable throttle on them gennys really ( maybe some do as im not that familiar with generators actually tbh ) as coupled with an accurate Hz or v meter on them as well it would be better to fine tune and keep right, i suppose users / hirers like the average builder etc ,doesnt give a monkeys as long as it runs his tools ok .

Same modern lawn mowers ,they have poor governing /throttle controls , no lever and cable just fiddly little springs and linkages

Sorry, I have digressed

 

[Bury the Trash]

With regards to Sheet seam , i have got a sample piece and its impressive i must say how it holds a reasonable thickness of sheets tightly even if it is a bit tight to press together.
Could be useful for some other type of job, visa v sheet joining requirement i guess, but i cant quite think of one at the mo .
'Seams' very good quality plastic as well, proof of that is its springy ness and ability to hold well together, i guess, far better than my earlier idea suggested of slitting a couple of complimentary sizes of water pipe i'm sure......

All a chap needs now is some rain to grow some grass

 

[CDavidLance]

With regards to Sheet seam , i have got a sample piece and its impressive i must say how it holds a reasonable thickness of sheets tightly even if it is a bit tight to press together.
Could be useful for some other type of job, visa v sheet joining requirement i guess, but i cant quite think of one at the mo .
'Seams' very good quality plastic as well, proof of that is its springy ness and ability to hold well together, i guess, far better than my earlier idea suggested of slitting a couple of complimentary sizes of water pipe i'm sure......

All a chap needs now is some rain to grow some grass

Caution.
Contact with Silage Sheet Seam may seriously affect your use of Emojies.

 

[CDavidLance]

Lessons from the First Big Round Bales Pod Test.
Round bales are not easy to put in pods. Oblong bales are far more feasible if farmers wish to put bales in pods.
It is likely that a lower vacuum would have to be used with round bales pods because of the stress on sheets and Sheet Seam. We didn't get down to 280 mbars vacuum because of punctures from the stalks in the hay bales, but we did see that the sheets were already under a lot of stress at 160 mbars vacuum.
The use of Sheet Seam at waist level was intended to be easier, because of not bending down to ground level, but it is far more difficult to get the seam right at waist level. Because both sheets have to be pleated at waist level, you end up trying to stuff too much sheet into the seam. It is therefore better to work with Sheet Seam where one of the sheets is flat. In the case of pods that means using the Sheet Seam on the ground.
It might be better to think about using bags for round bales and quickly evacuating each one through the neck and sealing. That would only take a matter of seconds with a BL42 pump. Round bales do not go into pods easily, even on end, so I will update the YVCS website with what has been discovered.

 

[CDavidLance]

VACUUM SILAGE BALES POD

This is Vacuum Silage making applied to bales. It is a simple and flexible silage making and storage idea for farms using baled silage. It has the potential to produce even higher quality silage than Yalland Vacuum Compressed Silage field clamps because of the speed with which bales can be sealed and evacuated following baling in the field.

Potentially bales can be in a state of anaerobic fermentation within an hour of wilted grass being baled. That beats the YVCS method by several hours and consequently could reduce losses of carbohydrate and protein to their lowest feasible level in silage making.

CAUTION! THIS IS PURELY THEORETICAL AT THE MOMENT (NOV 2021) AND NEEDS TO BE TRIED AND TESTED IN THE FIELD TO CONFIRM THE FEASIBILITY OF THE IDEAS INVOLVED IN PRACTICE.

Discussions with UK and Norwegian silage makers have raised the problems of variability in the quality of baled silage. Aberystwyth research found that transport of bales often disrupted bagging or wrapping and the damage resulted in spoilt silage. The Vacuum Silage Bale Pod method gets all the transport over with before sealing and evacuating. It uses silage sheets and Silage Sheet Seam to enclose batches of bales in pods with a stack pipe so that a strong vacuum can be applied to each batch, similar to YVCS.

Ideally the storage area would be under cover, but this should work on a hard standing outside with stronger safety sheets. Silage sheets can be loaded with bales, wrapping completely around the stack and sealing in a stack pipe (with valve) that will stay with each pod until feeding time. The use of Silage Sheet Seam would enable a hard vacuum to be applied to the pod by an electric air pump. It would only take a few minutes (with the right pump) to apply a vacuum of at least 8 inches of Mercury to a pod.

Evacuation can be re-applied to each pod following the Carbon Dioxide Response to control the volume of gas in the pod and leave very little for long term storage. Safety sheets to protect the silage sheets would be needed.

Bales would not need to be wrapped or bagged in the field. A band to hold each bale together is all that might be needed, as used for round hay bales. This could reduce plastic sheet waste because the silage sheets used for the pod could be less than the wrapping or bagging required for bales. Costs of sheeting for podding would be similar to costs of wrapping or bagging.

The usual care of the silage sheets would be required and protection from all hazards that might puncture them. The sheets would be disposable and an annual cost. The air pump, stack pipes, valves and safety sheets would be an investment and should last for many years.

The number of bales in a pod would be linked to the feed out rate on the farm. There should be no more bales than can be used in three days of feeding. I would suggest that a maximum height of two round bales and a maximum total of 30 round bales in each pod should be used.

One of the main unknowns at the moment is how the enveloping sheet would behave under vacuum because it will pull upwards between bales as well as inwards and down. It would be easier to sheet up a pod of bales on their ends. How feasible is that? Your bale handling advice is needed here. Is it just as easy to handle bales on end as on their sides?

View attachment 999363

This idea for round bales has been found to unfeasible for Vacuum Silage. The sheets and Sheet Seam were put under too much stress in tests so this configuration has been tested and failed. The image has been removed from the YVCS website.
The idea still holds for oblong bales and tests so far have found that idea to be feasible. New Pod Image coming soon based on oblong bales.
Round bales can be evacuated one by one in bags but not wrapped.
More tests ongoing.

 

[CDavidLance]

There is now a limited and globally unique stock of rolls of Silage Sheet Seam. The YVCS website is carrying that update. A run of 30 rolls of 100 m has been produced.
Contributors showing an interest in this product have included @davidroberts30 , @Bury the Trash , @PREES , @topground , @Hilly , @mealman , @Richard III , @MrA.G. , @KennyO , @RushesToo , @steveR , @som farmer , @Agrifool and @oakfarm in the past. The product is on sale through the website and email address.

 

[CDavidLance]

This idea for round bales has been found to unfeasible for Vacuum Silage. The sheets and Sheet Seam were put under too much stress in tests so this configuration has been tested and failed. The image has been removed from the YVCS website.
The idea still holds for oblong bales and tests so far have found that idea to be feasible. New Pod Image coming soon based on oblong bales.
Round bales can be evacuated one by one in bags but not wrapped.
More tests ongoing.