Vapormatic gasket kits and other problems

[John 1594]

Currently rebuilding a dexta 144 engine, sourcing parts from my usual supplier

normally try to avoid anything with VAP on it purely because past experiences have led me to belive 99% of their products are shite.

So, get the engine built up, sparex pistons/shells/valves/seals, with VAP gaskets as thats all he had in stock

First problem manifested itself with the front timing cover. Now, VAP supply this kit as "to fit 35/dexta tractors, and supply 2 timing cover gaskets, 1 to suit either application. The 35 one obviously dont fit, and the "dexta" one, has most of the bolt holes half out of line, it does fit after a lot of fiddling though. And the front crank seal was a completely different size as well, so had to get another one of those too

The gasket for the rear crank seal is so thick its a job to get both it and the housing behind the crank, so i finished up making one to fit it. Similar with the simms injection pump, no sign of a gasket to fit it or the front inspection plate, so had to make both those too

Now onto the best one, the combustion chamber caps are sealed with a solid copper shim/gasket. Soon as the engine started, fumes,diesel and gases were literally pissing out of the caps, and no amount of tightening would stop them. So, manifolds off, caps off, heat the caps and gaskets till they were cherry red, then bolt them back on as tight as they would go. Sealed them up fine, but its a job what shouldnt have needed doing

the new VAP thermostat also failed to open, even with the needle off the gauge it was still shut tight as a nuns ****

Moral of this moan is, if your supplier gives you VAP gaskets or other engine bits, tell him you want something else instead!

 

[james 880]

i use vap stuff most of the time with not many issues, i have had problems with parts for dexta engines as although designed by perkins there is not as many crossover parts as these people think, had particular issues with sump and cork gaskets

 

[John 1594]

i use vap stuff most of the time with not many issues, i have had problems with parts for dexta engines as although designed by perkins there is not as many crossover parts as these people think, had particular issues with sump and cork gaskets

i find bepco are best quality/fit with regards to bits for my own DB engines, the vap stuff always seems to be less well made and flimsy

do wonder if they actually test fit a lot of thier gasket kits, and its a bit naughty supply a "full gasket kit" that is missing two important gaskets, and needs others altering to fit

my supplier knows my dislike of VAP, and most the time will supply me with other brands even if he has to order them special, this dexta is a customers tractor however, and the sooner its out the gate the sooner i can get the next one in, so i had the VAP parts as they were in stock

 

[MF-ANDY]

Solid copper gaskets should be annealed before use by heating them to cherry red and then quenching. This includes injector washers. Copper work hardens but also age hardens.

 

[John 1594]

Solid copper gaskets should be annealed before use by heating them to cherry red and then quenching. This includes injector washers. Copper work hardens but also age hardens.

wouldnt hurt if VAP stated that on the packet, wonder how many people have bought these shite gasket kits and suffered leaks

quench them after heating, wont that make them harder as opposed to letting them cool naturally???

just hope the rear crank seal has settled in ok, was an absolute cow of a thing to get in, ropes dont come pre cut now, one set does all jobs, cut them to fit. Soaked for 48 hours, then pressed them in using a 50mm socket in the vice to force them down into the groove, loctite between the housing flanges and a thin gasket onto the block as the vap one was way too thick and was holding the seal housing against the crank

 

[Kevtherev]

I had similar problems with VAP crap on a dexta and IH 454 I did up always use bepco engine and gasket kits. Not had any problems since. Glaser gasket sets are quite good too.

 

[MF-ANDY]

wouldnt hurt if VAP stated that on the packet, wonder how many people have bought these shite gasket kits and suffered leaks

quench them after heating, wont that make them harder as opposed to letting them cool naturally???

just hope the rear crank seal has settled in ok, was an absolute cow of a thing to get in, ropes dont come pre cut now, one set does all jobs, cut them to fit. Soaked for 48 hours, then pressed them in using a 50mm socket in the vice to force them down into the groove, loctite between the housing flanges and a thin gasket onto the block as the vap one was way too thick and was holding the seal housing against the crank

No the proper way to anneal copper is to quench after heating

 

[John 1594]

No the proper way to anneal copper is to quench after heating

never knew that, only ever annealed steel before, heating a sheared off high tensile stud up then letting it cool naturally so i could drill it out

knowing what i know now i wouldnt have taken them off, as there was harldy any carbon build up to to the gallons of ether wasing the inside of the engine spotless

 

[John 1594]

quick update, after obtaining another set of copper gaskets, my suppliers advice was to heat them to blue and let them cool naturally, then get a straight edge and check the squareness of the caps, and grind a "touch" off the areas around the outside of each bolt hole, suffice to say its worked, no more leaks

now the next problem is its got so much oil pressure its blowing the seal between the oil filter cansiter and the housing, changed it twice today while working it (possibly too hard i might add)

going to swap it for a mates filter next and see what happens

 

[Ley253]

If there is that much oil pressure, the relief valve is u/s!

 

[John 1594]

If there is that much oil pressure, the relief valve is u/s!

its been fine pottering about round the yard, but when i got a bit of heat into her with that rather too large topper hung on her arse, she didnt think much of it. Checked the relief valve ball bearing in the filter head, it moves ok, there is no relief valve on the pump itself as far as i am aware?

 

[Ley253]

The relief valve is behind the split pin on the side of the oil pump, the valve in the filter head is a bypass to allow some oil flow if the filter ever gets blocked.

 

[John 1594]

The relief valve is behind the split pin on the side of the oil pump, the valve in the filter head is a bypass to allow some oil flow if the filter ever gets blocked.

its a VAP pump, need i say any more

 

[Ley253]

.Now Now, are you complaining because its working too well!

 

[John 1594]

.Now Now, are you complaining because its working too well!

im thinking a screw on oil filter from an AD3-152 may be the answer, ive already converted the heater plug from that pathetic pump/coil/jet offering that fordson made it with to a proper MF thermostart and resivior tank, now you dont need 3 hands to start it lol

 

[Ley253]

The AD3 152 in my Leyland still has the old element filter, and the cold start is a thermo start fed from the bleed/return to tank lines, with a seperate heater switch.The info re relief valve was for this engine, vap may have deleted the valve, so best get a look at a vap pump before removing the sump methinks!

 

[John 1594]

The AD3 152 in my Leyland still has the old element filter, and the cold start is a thermo start fed from the bleed/return to tank lines, with a seperate heater switch.The info re relief valve was for this engine, vap may have deleted the valve, so best get a look at a vap pump before removing the sump methinks!

trouble we encountered, is the thermostart plug will not work correctly mounted in the same position as the original dexta heater coil, ie upside down under the manifold, the thermostart needs mounting horizontal, so we blanked off the original dexta plug and jet, then drilled and tapped a new hole for the MF plug

and another trait peculiar to the dexta, the injector leak off is bone dry even at full revs, its a common thing apparently, so you have no leak off to top the resivoir up. So it has a girling brake fluid pot on the back of the bulhead what needs filling manually ever so often

but its still a lot better than that primer pump system, and the thermostart imposes less of a current draw on the wiring that the original dexta coil as well

will ring supplier about the oil pump, i still have the old one thankfully

 

[Ley253]

Hi,
can you not take a line from the fuel filter to your thermostart/leak off line? Thats all Leyland have done

 

[John 1594]

Hi,
can you not take a line from the fuel filter to your thermostart/leak off line? Thats all Leyland have done

its a strange setup on a forsdon with an inline pump, there is no return from the injector pump, so it relys on full pressure from the lift pump to keep the inline injection pump supplied with fuel

it could be done with a restricted banjo feed off the filter certainly, i just had this girling brake pot to hand and wanted to keep it quick and simple for the customer

the thermostart works a 1000 times better than the original fordson method

 

[Ley253]

Similar pump on Nuffields, and they do use a restricted return. No thermostart though they never need one! Having said that, so far the 253 has started first compression, whatever the weather.Mind you, it wont be doing much ploughing in the frost, tractor would be fine, driver would not!