Wouldn't that make her just an unreliable vet with no buying power?
Vet call out charges
- Thread starter nelly55
- Start date
ollie989898
Member
If a person was employed by farms to be their vet, on a salaried basis. What odds does it matter to them where the drugs are bought from? The farms would get value by having them on the place and driving animal health/performance policy which is where the serious savings are made anyway.
If you had the right collection of clients the number of times you would be called out out of hours would be very very low. You would get anything iffy looked at in daylight hours and having a vet on the place regularly would help avoid problems ahead of time instead of...mustn't call vet....mustn't call vet.....mustn't call vet.....oh fudge, better call vet.
I can tell you now I had clients who would not call out a vet out of hours because they would sort it themselves or they just didn't believe it was worthwhile. I could think of 4 clients who are serious dairy farmers and any call out would be once in a blue moon.
If it works great. The OOH thing on call 7 days would be a problem unless she had a partner then its 1 in 2 and there would need to be twice the number of farms and call outs. If the OOHs was given to another practice and I was the practice given the privilage of picking up that OOH work I'd charge them a shitload more to cover the lost drug sales and cherry picking, added to increased drug costs the ecomomics would be squeezed.
ollie989898
Member
You are getting hung up on out of hours and drugs.
If a vet was employed on a salary by a few farms to work for them and them alone, the drug angle is out of the window. Doesn't matter where they come from.
You would be 'on duty' in theory much of the time but in reality you would never be called out except if something was literally bleeding to death. If you are working for a select bunch of farmers and no small holders and other bilge then in reality you aren't going to phoned up much. Anything that looks suspect you will see as part of your normal working day.
A new model will be found in time I have no doubt.
It matters to the farms bottom line and therefore what your wife can charge them without them returning to the other practices, its not an angle, I am not against you its just a potential pitfall. Yes, the model must change, dickensian working practices can't be sustained much longer.
ollie989898
Member
You still aren't getting it.
The farms employ you. That is it. There is no sale, no VAT, no invoicing. They pay a salary, you do the work. Any drugs they need you prescribe/order and they pay for. Like farms employing their own agronomist. He isn't selling them anything.
There are a growing number of vets out there who just want the work but not the business/corporate BS that goes with it.
I think I do get it but don't think it will work. If your wife does make a go of it I'd be interested to hear about it though.
- Location
- North Wales
I can see it working.
4 farms all pay towards salary of the vet and get the equivalent of a day's worth vetting/routine work through the week.
There will obviously be close communication with the vet as they would be on farm at least once a week if not more and sometimes daily. Ooh work should be minimal and to be fair it would mostly be at calving and they could possibly add an additional fee for the call out to avoid the farmer just ringing because he can't be arsed doing it himself but it was a veterinary emergency the vet would come.
Just needs sitting down with the right farmers and working out a price/value.
4 farms all pay towards salary of the vet and get the equivalent of a day's worth vetting/routine work through the week.
There will obviously be close communication with the vet as they would be on farm at least once a week if not more and sometimes daily. Ooh work should be minimal and to be fair it would mostly be at calving and they could possibly add an additional fee for the call out to avoid the farmer just ringing because he can't be arsed doing it himself but it was a veterinary emergency the vet would come.
Just needs sitting down with the right farmers and working out a price/value.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Shared provisions like you claim to know off never work our long term or are a stepping stone to one practice giving up. Also they are not the same as cherry picking the good stuff during the day and someone else doing the crap.
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Your the one not getting it. It’s the out of hours that’s the downfall of it all. Does your wife actually do any on call? You have kids, surely you understand what is like juggling 2 people working one of which irregular hours with kids and then throwing in out of hours. It’s doable 1 in 4 any worse and it takes over your life.
Shared OOH provision is common in SA practice ( indeed the company ‘Vets now’ was established in 2002 to provide this) but is pretty much unheard of in LA practice, though neighbours can Very occasionally help each other out if they have a friendly relationship. An equine OOH provider service is being established in the South but it’s early days as to how it will work.
Dedicated OOH provision is expensive.
‘Vets now’ work on a basic Model of having at least 16 feeder practices ( with at least 4 FTE SA Vets in each) to be economic.
I’ve been in the industry for 30 years as both employee and employer, in independent and now corporate practice.
Let’s be honest here, Circa 75% of the profession are now female of which a significant proportion will go on to have families and remove themselves from practice for a variable number of years, often want to return part time, and particularly aren’t keen on OOH due to family commitments.
On call provision is more onerous than anyone who hasn’t done it will understand. It’s the main reason given for Vets switching to SA work from LA or mixed, or leaving the profession completely.
It is so much more complicated than you suggest Ollie. I know in the 10’s of Vets married to livestock farmers (dairy, beef and sheep) and all of them still use the local practice, though the family angle will complicate things here.
The concept of fixed fee service provision is already in practice not too far from me but it hasn’t been Very successful and Vet retention by the practice offering it seems to be a significant obstacle.
Dedicated OOH provision is expensive.
‘Vets now’ work on a basic Model of having at least 16 feeder practices ( with at least 4 FTE SA Vets in each) to be economic.
I’ve been in the industry for 30 years as both employee and employer, in independent and now corporate practice.
Let’s be honest here, Circa 75% of the profession are now female of which a significant proportion will go on to have families and remove themselves from practice for a variable number of years, often want to return part time, and particularly aren’t keen on OOH due to family commitments.
On call provision is more onerous than anyone who hasn’t done it will understand. It’s the main reason given for Vets switching to SA work from LA or mixed, or leaving the profession completely.
It is so much more complicated than you suggest Ollie. I know in the 10’s of Vets married to livestock farmers (dairy, beef and sheep) and all of them still use the local practice, though the family angle will complicate things here.
The concept of fixed fee service provision is already in practice not too far from me but it hasn’t been Very successful and Vet retention by the practice offering it seems to be a significant obstacle.
ollie989898
Member
I give up. Fudge it. I dunno what part of the country you guys are in, but I can think of several clients who would struggle to remember the last time they needed a vet out of hours. A good portion of dairy farmers around here will shoot anything even in the day time rather than call a vet as they consider it a waste of money.
- Location
- Cheshire
When our old practise was still privately owned they used to provide OOH cover for all the other small LA practises in the area. Don’t know if they do now they gone corporate. They have stopped talking too me since I jumped ship! 
I could see the idea of a shared salaried vet working between a group of farmers. The right farmers and the right vet I can see it working. Get 1 wrong farmer in the group though and I can see it being a total nightmare.
But I’m only beef and sheep. I see the vet twice yearly for TB testing, I usually have the cows scanned at the same time. Other than that I might call them out 3 times in 2 years. So I’m not sure how workload on dairy outfits works with fortnightly health meetings and what have you.
I could see the idea of a shared salaried vet working between a group of farmers. The right farmers and the right vet I can see it working. Get 1 wrong farmer in the group though and I can see it being a total nightmare.
But I’m only beef and sheep. I see the vet twice yearly for TB testing, I usually have the cows scanned at the same time. Other than that I might call them out 3 times in 2 years. So I’m not sure how workload on dairy outfits works with fortnightly health meetings and what have you.
Attitudes are very different here, lots of OOH calls. If thats how they think maybe dead stock removals would be a better bet
not likely to make a living off them!
ollie989898
Member
Attitudes are very different here, lots of OOH calls. If thats how they think maybe dead stock removals would be a better bet
Wife was discussing it earlier. Very few out of hours calls for her but that may reflect the type of client in this part of the world. Easily doable.
- Location
- N.Lincs
When our indepedent practice changed hands, I said I'd put any drug purchases (vaccines etc) through them to help them get going.
Cost me a bit more, as it turned out I could buy a lot of stuff cheaper than they could
But hey ho, I thought I'd do my bit and help a vet starting off for the first time in his own practice.
Backfired on me though - he'd been going less than a year when we got a letter saying they were only going to do small animals and I should find another vet
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I think it reflects the TB situation in your part of the world. Ratio of clients to vets will be less as time taken doing TB testing. In areas with little tb they spend more time on clinical work and probably have more clients hence more OOHs.
ollie989898
Member
This is a big dairy area and the bulk of my clients had routine dairy work as standard. TB is a big thing here but there is also a lot fo clients in a relatively small part of the world, too. Dorset I bet would be similar, certainly the Blackmore Vale would be big on dairy.
johnflimston
Member
- Location
- Glamorgan, Wales
Theres more than 1 way to stop it suffering.
Ollie. Just get on with it.
Well, Mrs Ollie just get on with it. Report back annually.
I will point out that turnover and profit are very different beasts and I suspect you will need far more than 4 units to make it work, which in turn will increase your exposure and there will be all sorts of things (costs) not thought about.
But Feck, what do I know.
Good luck with it all Mrs Ollie.
Well, Mrs Ollie just get on with it. Report back annually.
I will point out that turnover and profit are very different beasts and I suspect you will need far more than 4 units to make it work, which in turn will increase your exposure and there will be all sorts of things (costs) not thought about.
But Feck, what do I know.
Good luck with it all Mrs Ollie.