Victim Attitudes

[Walterp]

Lerner's famous psychological experiments, rigging up victims to electric shocks, demonstrated that onlookers didn't pity those getting shocked but, instead, disparaged them. And as the severity of the shocks was increased, the heckling didn't tail off but actually worsened.

You can see victim blaming all around: victims should 'man up', or 'they deserve it', and those living in poverty are lazy and unmotivated. If only students would cease buying mobile phones, their student debt would become affordable.

Lerner concluded it is a way of denying that a problem exists and, thus, denying both culpability and responsibility.

In the TFF version of the Good Book, the Good Samaritan would have muttered 'for chrissake's grow a pair, and get up off the floor', whilst continuing on his way to Jericho without lending either hand or money.

This trait informs contemporary Republican attitudes both in the USA, and for the Right domestically: the burden of taxation on corporations and the wealthy should fall, whilst the less well-off should pay for it via reduced expenditure.

But in a democracy, interested in the greatest good for the greatest number, is not the practical effect of these short-sighted policies to hang a target around the necks of the top 25% of the well-off in both countries?

 

[Danllan]

Now it all makes sense; but instead of electric shocks you are using your 'posts' on us, you fiend..!

 

[baabaa]

Now it all makes sense; but instead of electric shocks you are using your 'posts' on us, you fiend..!

i believe in Lerners experiment the shocks were actually fake.
would the fiend be inflicting fake posts on us?

 

[Roger Perry]

They say that here in the US the top 20% of the population pay 85% of the tax.

That's a good argument for having a flat tax such as your VAT and get rid of every other tax.

 

[czechmate]

In a pen of fattening Bulls, if one falls a bit ill, gets a bit weak, lies a lot and wobles to get up, the others just start to knock him down when he tries.
Animals, esp human ones are just plain nasty - it's why i choose to live amongst as few as possible

 

[Henarar]

In a pen of fattening Bulls, if one falls a bit ill, gets a bit weak, lies a lot and wobles to get up, the others just start to knock him down when he tries.
Animals, esp human ones are just plain nasty - it's why i choose to live amongst as few as possible

our old Hereford bull would stop the cows fighting
some perhaps are more nasty than others

 

[Danllan]

They say that here in the US the top 20% of the population pay 85% of the tax.

That's a good argument for having a flat tax such as your VAT and get rid of every other tax.

Including income tax?

In a pen of fattening Bulls, if one falls a bit ill, gets a bit weak, lies a lot and wobles to get up, the others just start to knock him down when he tries.
Animals, esp human ones are just plain nasty - it's why i choose to live amongst as few as possible

And Mrs Czechmate's view of that is...?

 

[Roger Perry]

yes, get rid of all other taxes and tax loopholes.........lets all pay the same.

Never happen but when tax is applied unfairly it breeds discontent........

 

[Henarar]

.........lets all pay the same.

how much each would that be ?

 

[Danllan]

When you say the 'same', I assume that you mean for us all to pay the same percentage of income, rather than all pay, say £10,000 or $20,000. If so I agree, providing the tax threshold is set reasonably high to help those starting out in life.

 

[Roger Perry]

Yes, same % for everyone.

Just a pipedream though.

 

[Henarar]

When you say the 'same', I assume that you mean for us all to pay the same percentage of income, rather than all pay, say £10,000 or $20,000. If so I agree, providing the tax threshold is set reasonably high to help those starting out in life.

were abouts would the threshold be ?

 

[Danllan]

were abouts would the threshold be ?

Ahh... the big question. Can't speculate on that without a fair amount of research; but, on a utilitarian basis, it should be at the point where most above can afford and most below can't. (Ugh... that sounds very 'political'.)

Right, I must leave my sickbed and take some of the brats for their evening expenditure.

 

[Roger Perry]

Start at zero percent, so anything you make you pay 20% for example, and everyone pays the same........no loopholes...no threshhold........no offset...nothing.

I would be peed off some of the time not being able to expense stuff out, but instead of giving 40% of my income to the IRS I could live with 20%.

I suggest that the tax "take" would be larger (no getting around stuff) and it would make for a more fair society........no saying the rich are not paying fair share.

Thoughts..?

 

[czechmate]

Start at zero percent, so anything you make you pay 20% for example, and everyone pays the same........no loopholes...no threshhold........no offset...nothing.

I would be peed off some of the time not being able to expense stuff out, but instead of giving 40% of my income to the IRS I could live with 20%.

I suggest that the tax "take" would be larger (no getting around stuff) and it would make for a more fair society........no saying the rich are not paying fair share.

Thoughts..?

Thoughts - no threshold seems harsh, the way it is here. For self employed farmers at least. In fact there is a minimum payment to make even if you make a loss!!!

 

[fudge]

Terrible idea Roger. At the household level money is not a homogeneous commodity. The money you feed your children with is far more important than the money you buy their iPhones with. As Danilan implies (I think) the tax system should take account of this.

 

[Roger Perry]

If you are aiming for fairness you have to treat each citizen the same, if you are going to make exceptions you have blown the idea...............would you have it then whereby the first $50k is tax free....or whatever number..that,s not fair because some will pay and some will not so the whole idea about a "fair" tax has gone away.

Maybe my 20% was too high, how about everyone pays 10%, that may not be enough to pay all the countries bills..?

 

[Roger Perry]

Paying tax while not generating a profit sounds very un-democratic.

 

[fudge]

Mmmm this is why taxs are set by elected government rather than Internet forums in a democracy at least.

 

[caveman]

Do those on the "average salary", jelly roll, pay tax on it?
That could be a good starting threshold?
But it's a moot point anyways, because, we'll all be on the universal payment soon...... when robots and AI take over all the tasks, jobs, etc. Paid for by tax on big business of course.

An aside.

Just heard on PM that the salary cost of the public sector is £180 billion.
If it was to raise equal to inflation, that would cost an extra £2.9 billion, this year alone.
We're all fooked.
Well.
Those of us who produce any wealth, of course.