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View on the need for water conditioners ?

Discussion in 'Direct Drilling Crops & Agronomy' started by faircomment, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. DanniAgro

    DanniAgro Member

    Thanks for one recommendation, and I'll look into X change.
  2. DanniAgro

    DanniAgro Member

    Would you recommend an adjuvant of some sort with all pesticides, especially if your water is hard - I ask as X-change is recommended only for a relatively small number of chemicals. I appreciate that you've only tried a small number of those on the market, but would like to know in general if an additive is always necessary.
  3. Breakthru

    Breakthru Member

    Scottish Borders
    Had heard some good comments about X change, also on here but the restrictions on the label above meant I went to Reactor.
  4. That question is for the manufacturers TBH not me.

    There does come a point when you are tank mixing etc that you begun to think that there must surely be enough chemistry and their co-formulants in that tank to sort just about anything.

    Everyone here must surely know what a hot tank mix looks and feels like. I would be hesitant for people to go adding adjuvant to it for the sake of it.

    Having had extensive experience with maize tank mixes, I learned when I could get away with not using stuff and when you did need it.

    If it's glyphosate work, then LI-700 is the kiddie in my book.
  5. DanniAgro

    DanniAgro Member

    Thanks for a quick reply, and the mention of LI-700.

    Yes, the idea that the tank probably contains an exotic enough cocktail on many occasions certainly rings true, so it'd probably not be a good idea to overegg it.
  6. faircomment

    faircomment Member

    Thank you to anyone who has got back in touch with Email addresses
  7. Warnesworth

    Warnesworth Member

    Chipping Norton
    Spryte Aqua and Sparkler are two great surfactants for generic Glyphosate.
    Brisel likes this.
  8. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    If you'd asked this in the Cropping section you'd have had a lot more on this. I've just spotted it.

    @drummer_bruhaha 's firm can teach you all you'd ever need to know about glyphosate and hard water.

    Cations and alkaline hydrolysis are your enemies here. You could lose a third of the active ingredient to cations and never see it back. Rainwater is best, otherwise add the conditioner to the tank forst before the glyphosate. There are different methods - one of the cheaper ways is competitive salting with ammonium sulphate e.g. Firebrand, Synchro. Branded Roundups have all this built in which is part of the reason you pay more for them.

    I now use X Change (DeSangosse) with glyphosate, pyrethroids, "dim" herbicides, hormone herbicides & SU herbicides.
    drummer_bruhaha likes this.
  9. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Source: DeSangosse
    BenB and drummer_bruhaha like this.
  10. No - only certain pesticides are affected by cation lock up - you wouldn't do any harm, but you would be wasting your money.

    No label restrictions, just offering advice on which pesticides are affected
    Brisel likes this.
  11. mikep

    mikep Member

    Just seen this thread and can offer the following completely unscientific observation. We are in a soft water area and i never really used any additives unless specified on the can. Since going notill the weed spectrum here had changed and we are having real problems with willow herb as Glyphosate is not good on it. I started adding vinegar to the water and it definitely improves the efficacy on broad leafs, if i really need to kill it then i add mcpa which is the dogs bollox for all broad leaf that we have. The problem with this is that you must leave three weeks between application and planting or it can affect germination. For that reason i stick to vinegar for most tanks which does a good job and costs very little.
    Richard III likes this.
  12. faircomment

    faircomment Member

    So buffering the ph, doing it a lot cheaper that useing a water conditioner. Good to here another method of maximising glyphosate effectiveness.
  13. Go careful playing with hormones when spraying stuff off. Cereals will not be affected but things like beans definitely will be.
  14. Daniel

    Daniel Member

    We use powdered citric acid to lower the drinking water ph in our poultry sheds, would it work if I added the correct amount (around 1kg/tankload) to lower the ph of the spray water to 4.5?

    Or are x-change et al giving you something extra?
  15. mikep

    mikep Member

    If you just want an acid i think vinegar (acetic) at 35p litre will be a lot cheaper and smells like a fish supper. Also as its a food then i think there would be litle problem with the clipboard brigade.
  16. Daniel

    Daniel Member

    Citric acid powder is about £1.65/kg so spread over a 20ha thankful I don't think it would matter much!
  17. mikep

    mikep Member

    Really! sh!t I'm being ripped off but i suppose you buy it in bulk. I paid silly money for 100g the other day and at that price wouldn't dream of using it as a spray.
  18. Daniel

    Daniel Member

    You can get it in 25kg bags through farm marketplace.

    However, will it do the job as a water conditioner?
    Richard III likes this.
  19. Northdowns Martin

    Snodland kent
    I use citric acid powder, pay around £48/. 25kg bag. Tests indicate approx 150gm/lt of water to get water pH down to 5. My thinking is best approach will be to batch treat rather than add to induction hopper for each spray mix. Vinegar sounds a cheaper alternative to try.
  20. I use aquascope at .25 l per ha about £1.25 per ha

    according to Anglian water water is very hard 325mg/l calcium carbonate 129 mg/l calcium

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