Walking in the Dales

[Exfarmer]

just had a lovely few days in the dales and lake district.
I was shocked at the number of dogs running completely free, it seemed most groups had one or two and less than ten per cent were on a lead , despite large notices asking them to ensure this.
I pointed this out to one group whose dogs were roaming freely, very close to ewes and lambs, the response was so strong my wife asked me not to do it again as she was afraid we may get attacked.
I am not sure of the number of dog attacks on sheep, I suspect it is running in the low thousands from the continuous string of complaints I hear, it is very high time these grossly irresponsible people were called out and forced to change their ways. Even if I saw no dogs attacking sheep, most of them were quartering the rushes and bracken, which we all know is highly detrimental to wildlife of every description.

 

[brigadoon]

I was in the lakes a week or so - I saw very few dogs and everything I saw was under close control including a GS that could have gone 3 rounds with any grizzly he met, he walked at heel off the lead and passed within 10 metres of ewes and lambs and neither party gave a toss - much to my surprise I have to say I expected ewes and lambs to be heading for the skyline all around

Which is not to disagree with your basic point that dogs should be under control, but if I understand your post none of the dogs you saw were bothering the sheep?

There is no requirement in Scotland for dogs to be on a lead - they are supposed to be under close control - a requirement honoured mainly in the breech I admit.

If you accost folks that are not causing a problem then don't be surprised if you get your character read.

 

[Purli R]

Some people are very conscientious about there dogs on lead & being under control,some just dont give a fup,they seem to think it"s their God given right & no body owns the land cos its in a National Park (yorkshire dales here) The National Park do nothing to Disabuse people of this notion.They might put signs up saying "please keep your dog under close control" not "Keep yer fekin dog on a lead" Having said that upto now we have had very little bother to be fair. Funny when dog walkers see the farmer coming they always put muttley on the lead

 

[crofter 65]

It never ceases to amaze me all the posts on facebook about missing dogs, if they were kept on a lead or at least on heel they wouldn't have such a problem, round here some walkers do keep them on the lead but most are free as soon as out in the hill.

 

[Exfarmer]

I was in the lakes a week or so - I saw very few dogs and everything I saw was under close control including a GS that could have gone 3 rounds with any grizzly he met, he walked at heel off the lead and passed within 10 metres of ewes and lambs and neither party gave a toss - much to my surprise I have to say I expected ewes and lambs to be heading for the skyline all around

Which is not to disagree with your basic point that dogs should be under control, but if I understand your post none of the dogs you saw were bothering the sheep?

There is no requirement in Scotland for dogs to be on a lead - they are supposed to be under close control - a requirement honoured mainly in the breech I admit.

If you accost folks that are not causing a problem then don't be surprised if you get your character read.

Probably 80% I saw had dogs with them on a walk on Sunday morning, if a dog is 50 yards from its owner, it is not under control in any shape or form!
I have seen plenty of well trained dogs which would not be an issue in that situation but they were certainly in the small minority.

 

[deleted user 837354]

To have your dog off the lead despite repeated signage clearly stating that they should be on leads is wrong and I would have pointed it out, too, reminding people that a lot of grizzly farmers will shoot dogs off the lead and there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it.

 

[TheTallGuy]

To have your dog off the lead despite repeated signage clearly stating that they should be on leads is wrong and I would have pointed it out, too, reminding people that a lot of grizzly farmers will shoot dogs off the lead and there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it.

Not strictly so... https://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/dog-owners/advice-for-farmers/2486/destroying-dogs-that-attack/

 

[brigadoon]

To have your dog off the lead despite repeated signage clearly stating that they should be on leads is wrong and I would have pointed it out, too, reminding people that a lot of grizzly farmers will shoot dogs off the lead and there isn't a damned thing anyone can do about it.

Any farmer that shoots a dog merely for being off a lead is well outside the law - far from there being nothing anyone can do about it he is likely to end up in court on both civil and criminal charges and is extremely unlikely to ever get his shotgun licence back.

A farmer can shoot a dog which is actively worrying livestock - end of story

 

[brigadoon]

Probably 80% I saw had dogs with them on a walk on Sunday morning, if a dog is 50 yards from its owner, it is not under control in any shape or form!

So a collie or spaniel being handled out is not under control?

How many pointers work within 50 yards of the handler?

Tracking dogs working out of sight and giving tongue when they locate the quarry?

Again I am not disagreeing with your basic point that dogs should be under control, and it is true that control is more difficult with increasing distance but the statement above holds no water in my view.

If they are worrying sheep shoot them, if they are otherwise causing bother castigate the driver, if they are not causing any bother then leave well alone.

I have seen plenty of well trained dogs which would not be an issue in that situation but they were certainly in the small minority

On that at least we can agree - most dogs simply are not trained - period

 

[Exfarmer]

So a collie or spaniel being handled out is not under control?

How many pointers work within 50 yards of the handler?

Tracking dogs working out of sight and giving tongue when they locate the quarry?

Again I am not disagreeing with your basic point that dogs should be under control, and it is true that control is more difficult with increasing distance but the statement above holds no water in my view.

If they are worrying sheep shoot them, if they are otherwise causing bother castigate the driver, if they are not causing any bother then leave well alone.



On that at least we can agree - most dogs simply are not trained - period

Not sure where you are coming from, I saw the farmer on one walk checking on sheep across a fell which is probably tens of thousands of acres ( I really have no idea how many could be hundreds of thousands) , how can they begin to police the rogue walkers and dogs which cause the damage?
If they all had dogs on leads, there would be no issue, but as soon as you allow one dog off, that is a licence for all dogs to be off.
When I had a farm I always insisted all walkers had dogs on leads just for the wildlife, we still had one incident where a rogue allowed his dogs to kill 3 sheep.
I considered it a great privilege to be able to walk on this private land, a pity so many abuse it!

 

[Spartacus]

I'm sure I've said it before on here, if someone comes by with a dog off a lead I ask them to put it on one and tell them it's not for that particular dog (as it's clearly under close control) but the next person that sees them with a dog off a lead might think it's fine to do the same but their dog might not be as well behaved.

 

[brigadoon]

Not sure where you are coming from, I saw the farmer on one walk checking on sheep across a fell which is probably tens of thousands of acres ( I really have no idea how many could be hundreds of thousands) , how can they begin to police the rogue walkers and dogs which cause the damage?
If they all had dogs on leads, there would be no issue, but as soon as you allow one dog off, that is a licence for all dogs to be off.
When I had a farm I always insisted all walkers had dogs on leads just for the wildlife, we still had one incident where a rogue allowed his dogs to kill 3 sheep.
I considered it a great privilege to be able to walk on this private land, a pity so many abuse it!

I come from the position that it is better to at least try work with the public than to adopt a confrontational stance, I do farm and would not view loose dogs amongst my animals with much enthusiasm I have to admit.

But I can only take action if there is a problem or at least a potential problem - in Scotland my land is not private and joe public is entitled to be there - with his under control dog

 

[Bogweevil]

Any farmer that shoots a dog merely for being off a lead is well outside the law - far from there being nothing anyone can do about it he is likely to end up in court on both civil and criminal charges and is extremely unlikely to ever get his shotgun licence back.

A farmer can shoot a dog which is actively worrying livestock - end of story

How does the law stand on tasering errant pooches?

 

[TheTallGuy]

How does the law stand on tasering errant pooches?

Would most likely be considered to be causing "unnecessary suffering to an animal"

 

[Highland Mule]

I come from the position that it is better to at least try work with the public than to adopt a confrontational stance, I do farm and would not view loose dogs amongst my animals with much enthusiasm I have to admit.

But I can only take action if there is a problem or at least a potential problem - in Scotland my land is not private and joe public is entitled to be there - with his under control dog

Under _close_ control - defined in the advice I read as on a short lead or at heel, for any field with farm animals in it. A dog that is ten foot from its owner in any field with farm animals is not complying with the Scottish Outdoor Access code, to my reading of it.

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/dog-walking