Water, water everywhere but seldom a drop to pump

[JohnGalway]

Nope, I don't mean salt water. I'm talking gravity.

Most of the water on my farm is either in lakes or ponds, naturally set in low spots with no flow, no rivers or streams into them.

No problem in this day and age as we have solar or petrol water pumps, one could even build a windmill.

Yeah but I'm lazy, and these things always break down when you need them.

Trawling the library of human knowledge that is YouTube I came across this interesting video below.

In the most low tech of ways I can now generate out flow from a low lying body of water, presuming I make the thing correctly - I still don't quite know what the vertical pipe on the outflow is for.

My next question is whether one of these contraptions would generate enough outflow to power a ram pump, then I'm in business

 

[farmerm]

looks like witchcraft to me! surely you can only create passive flow by giving water a path from a low lying body of water if it is to a an even lower point? I cant see how that can deliver water uphill unless there is a pump hidden in the drum

 

[JohnGalway]

If I can lay hands on a steel barrel that hasn't had some nasty crap in it I'll give it a go I think. Watched another video where they had 3 barrels and a pretty good flow.

 

[exmoor dave]

Nope, I don't mean salt water. I'm talking gravity.

Most of the water on my farm is either in lakes or ponds, naturally set in low spots with no flow, no rivers or streams into them.

No problem in this day and age as we have solar or petrol water pumps, one could even build a windmill.

Yeah but I'm lazy, and these things always break down when you need them.

Trawling the library of human knowledge that is YouTube I came across this interesting video below.

In the most low tech of ways I can now generate out flow from a low lying body of water, presuming I make the thing correctly - I still don't quite know what the vertical pipe on the outflow is for.

My next question is whether one of these contraptions would generate enough outflow to power a ram pump, then I'm in business

Looks like it's using a bit of vacuum pressure to create a siphon

Very clever

 

[primmiemoo]

Hydraulic ram - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

?

 

[farmerm]

[/QUOTE]
what does the barrel actually achieve in the equation? I have a tank of water in the yard, if I place a pipe in it, fill the pipe with water, hold my finger over the end of the pipe, place this end of the

Looks like it's using a bit of vacuum pressure to create a siphon

Very clever

If there is a vacuum in the barrel creating a siphon effect how does it siphon in water from one pipe yet allow water to flow under gravity out the other? what allows water to flow out rather than air being sucked in through the outflow pipe?

 

[Agrivator]

He's a demon with a hammer. The sort of chap you would want around if you were shipwrecked on a desert island.

Or his sister if she's as capable..

 

[Downton_shep]

As long as the tank is higher than the outlet it should work.

 

[Guleesh]

If that works then the world's energy crisis is solved. I suspect it will work as long as he keeps filling up the barrel with buckets.

The hydraulic ram is the best way to lift water but you need quite a large volume of moving water in the first place.

 

[JohnGalway]

If that works then the world's energy crisis is solved. I suspect it will work as long as he keeps filling up the barrel with buckets.

The hydraulic ram is the best way to lift water but you need quite a large volume of moving water in the first place.

I think he's onto something with the suction starting things going, going to try it if I can get the materials. Ram pump is zero use to me without the former as I have no flowing water. I could siphon over long distances in 2 places but it'd be immensely wasteful with a ram pump at the end pumping back up hill. Much better if the ram pump can be near the barrels and divert waste water back to source.

 

[Guleesh]

Am I missing something here? Free energy?

Is the outlet higher than the surface water level of the pond? If so then it's only going to provide as much water as has been lifted into the barrel with the buckets. if the outlet is lower than the surface of the pond then a pipe from the pond will do the same job, is this just a really fancy way of starting a syphon?

@JohnGalway Is there any possibility of installing a pond or large tank at a high point on your place? you'd get enough rain without a huge catchment area to fill it quickly enough I suspect.

 

[Downton_shep]

I think if the tank is large enough and high enough the water coming out the outlet causes enough vacuum to suck the water out the pond back into the tank.

 

[Guleesh]

I think if the tank is large enough and high enough the water coming out the outlet causes enough vacuum to suck the water out the pond back into the tank.

Only if the outlet is lower than the inlet.... which is a syphon, albeit with an air chamber in the middle.

 

[betweenthelines]

He's hoicking 45 gallons of water up to the barrel to drain out of the barrel to create a vacuum.

If the barrel & seals are not 100% airtight, the vacuum won't last very long.

 

[Gulli]

Only if the outlet is lower than the inlet.... which is a syphon, albeit with an air chamber in the middle.

It's just a fancy siphon I think but lifting to the tank gives more pressure at the outlet than just running a pipe from the pond.

 

[Guleesh]

It's just a fancy siphon I think but lifting to the tank gives more pressure at the outlet than just running a pipe from the pond.

The only relevant factor in a sealed pipe is the difference in height between the inlet and the outlet, what happens in between is of little consequence.

Every 10m below the surface of water creates approximately 1 bar of pressure at that depth. so if the barrel was 10m higher than the outlet, 1 bar could be obtained only if surface water in the barrel was subjected to the same atmospheric pressure as the outlet. In this scenario that pressure at the outlet will be quickly lost due to the vacuum created at the highest point by the weight of water pulling down both the inlet and outlet, the vacuum chamber in the middle makes no difference really. The only way to obtain flow is to lower the outlet below the surface level of the inlet.

More pressure and flow is created here than a basic syphon because a man filled up the barrel with buckets, the only 'free energy' is the energy the man already spent lifting water, which then becomes potential energy.

Unless I'm missing something it is a syphon that allows extra water to be added using buckets and a barrel at height. Any perceived gain will be lost once the barrel has emptied, but then I suppose you could just keep filling up the barrel with buckets and call it free energy.

 

[farmerm]

The only relevant factor in a sealed pipe is the difference in height between the inlet and the outlet, what happens in between is of little consequence.

Every 10m below the surface of water creates approximately 1 bar of pressure at that depth. so if the barrel was 10m higher than the outlet, 1 bar could be obtained only if surface water in the barrel was subjected to the same atmospheric pressure as the outlet. In this scenario that pressure at the outlet will be quickly lost due to the vacuum created at the highest point by the weight of water pulling down both the inlet and outlet, the vacuum chamber in the middle makes no difference really. The only way to obtain flow is to lower the outlet below the surface level of the inlet.

More pressure and flow is created here than a basic syphon because a man filled up the barrel with buckets, the only 'free energy' is the energy the man already spent lifting water, which then becomes potential energy.

Unless I'm missing something it is a syphon that allows extra water to be added using buckets and a barrel at height. Any perceived gain will be lost once the barrel has emptied, but then I suppose you could just keep filling up the barrel with buckets and call it free energy.

it not even a sealed pipe given that the barrel has those pipes out the top of it note that the last bit of piece of the outflow is a smaller diameter pipe, outflow volume is the same as inflow volume but smaller outflow pipe means outflow exhibits a greater pressure. It might look like you are applying water faster but 10l/min is 10l/min regardless if the water leaves the pipe traveling at 1m/second or as a fine jet at 100m/s.. actually it is worse than, the extra friction in the narrower pipe actually reduces the flow rate.

 

[Gulli]

The only relevant factor in a sealed pipe is the difference in height between the inlet and the outlet, what happens in between is of little consequence.

Every 10m below the surface of water creates approximately 1 bar of pressure at that depth. so if the barrel was 10m higher than the outlet, 1 bar could be obtained only if surface water in the barrel was subjected to the same atmospheric pressure as the outlet. In this scenario that pressure at the outlet will be quickly lost due to the vacuum created at the highest point by the weight of water pulling down both the inlet and outlet, the vacuum chamber in the middle makes no difference really. The only way to obtain flow is to lower the outlet below the surface level of the inlet.

More pressure and flow is created here than a basic syphon because a man filled up the barrel with buckets, the only 'free energy' is the energy the man already spent lifting water, which then becomes potential energy.

Unless I'm missing something it is a syphon that allows extra water to be added using buckets and a barrel at height. Any perceived gain will be lost once the barrel has emptied, but then I suppose you could just keep filling up the barrel with buckets and call it free energy.

Good point well made

 

[JohnGalway]

On reflection and after a sleep, I don't think this will work

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Looks like it's using a bit of vacuum pressure to create a siphon

Very clever

Like a trompe - but negative pressure