Welsh Cap Reform

[IANTO]

WAG have already stated they are in favour of a two tier system.

1. Moorland.
2. All other land, with no distinction between Lowland, Disadvantaged and Severely Disadvantaged land.

They have recently changed the definition of Moorland to apply only to land over 400 metres.

The new map is shown here: http://data.wales.gov.uk/apps/moorland/

I for one cannot understand why most of the Preseli Mountains are considered to be as deserving as prime land in the South of Pembrokeshire, and the Tivy or Towy Valleys.

Can anyone calculate how the average entitlement will be reduced by this new Classification?

I would have thought that 250 metres would be a more realistic break point.

 

[endeavour]

Would appear to make a mockery of the old disadvantaged areas that was a recognition of the problems of farming in steep hilly areas under 400metres

 

[RJ1]

Seems to be an attempt to spread the wealth. Might it be a reaction and simple solution to the loss of money recently suffered by hill farmers without the need for a specific replacement scheme and the administration that entails?

 

[RJ1]

There's also the "areas of natural constraints" to factor in which, as far as i am aware, has notvyet been defined.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Good idea I would think

 

[IANTO]

Would appear to make a mockery of the old disadvantaged areas that was a recognition of the problems of farming in steep hilly areas under 400metres

I have understood how land was classified into DA and SDA.

The classification appears to have followed natural features such as minor roads rather than contour lines.

I know of many farms, where the flat land towards the top of the hill is classed as SDA, and lower steeply sloping land is only DA.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

If it was left as it was would not a lot of good land in SDA receive less than the same land next door that was not

 

[IANTO]

Seems to be an attempt to spread the wealth. Might it be a reaction and simple solution to the loss of money recently suffered by hill farmers without the need for a specific replacement scheme and the administration that entails?

It very possibly be WAG's version of DEFRA's moving money up the hill, but in my opinion badly thought out.

Most of the land above 400 metres and a lot lower in many places is common land. Makes administration harder not better.

When there was a head-age payment, there was no incentive for Hill Sheep Farmers to produce lambs for the market. In fact the complete opposite the smaller the better, as the greater the head-age payment.

I witnessed 40+ years ago a sheep farmer ask the landlord of a local pub whether he would cash a third party cheque for him.

When he said yes he passed him a Paymaster General Warrant for £60+K. An instalment of his sheep subsidy.

We are in danger of going to those days.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I thought the idea was to pay the hill less or have I missed something , you can't pay the hill less unless you cut out the better land

 

[IANTO]

Good idea I would think

So to come to your area.

Are the bogs and rough ground on Trychrug or around north of Cross Inn as productive and worthy of support as your land?

 

[IANTO]

I thought the idea was to pay the hill less or have I missed something , you can't pay the hill less unless you cut out the better land

Yes.

Redrawing the Maps, means the Hill Area is less, and in any event, a lot of what is left is planted with trees, and out of the equation.

The result by classifying what was previously Hill Land as Land for SFP, as they do not intend distinguishing between DA, SDA, and Lowland, is that the SFP POT will have to go further, and average entitlement values will be lower.

 

[RJ1]

It very possibly be WAG's version of DEFRA's moving money up the hill, but in my opinion badly thought out.

Most of the land above 400 metres and a lot lower in many places is common land. Makes administration harder not better.

When there was a head-age payment, there was no incentive for Hill Sheep Farmers to produce lambs for the market. In fact the complete opposite the smaller the better, as the greater the head-age payment.

I witnessed 40+ years ago a sheep farmer ask the landlord of a local pub whether he would cash a third party cheque for him.

When he said yes he passed him a Paymaster General Warrant for £60+K. An instalment of his sheep subsidy.

We are in danger of going to those days.

Aren't we sort of there already with the move to area payments and indeed the CAP itself? There is no incentive to produce anything except the market returns you get for your product. Those who want to crack on and farm for a profit will do so or will at least try. Those who don't will take their annual cheque as a bonus for owning their land and a little bit more for doing their bit in looking after the butterflies.

I'm not saying this is good or bad because frankly, I can't work out what the CAP is trying to achieve by now.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

So to come to your area.

Are the bogs and rough ground on Trychrug or around north of Cross Inn as productive and worthy of support as your land?

I have both peaty big and land that can produce good corn crops all classed SDA

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Bogs not bigs

 

[GTB]

You're all talking as if the hill farm with 'moorland' will get more per Ha ? In our case we'll be getting far less, thousands less in fact because on the present system a hectare is a hectare, it doesn't matter where it is all that matters is your entitlement per Ha. With the new system we will receive about £46 ? per HA for moorland despite getting a lot more with the present system.

 

[SilliamWhale]

To be honest its not so bad. It is at least more equitable than what we have now.

The difference between SD and non SD land wasn't going be a hell of a lot different under the 3 tier scheme. SD land has its own constraints so it is sensible to recognise that if they wanted too that is has less flexibility. Some people will be quids in if they have a lot of land but presumably they would have been relatively quids in if they kept a lot of sheep in a headage scheme.

That said the what is the difference between the GDP of Welsh ag produce and the total collective SFP? Really speaking it would be better to pack the whole nonsense up and just concentrate on developing other skills in the ag community.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Has the Treaty Of Rome agreement been binned

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You're all talking as if the hill farm with 'moorland' will get more per Ha ? In our case we'll be getting far less, thousands less in fact because on the present system a hectare is a hectare, it doesn't matter where it is all that matters is your entitlement per Ha. With the new system we will receive about £46 ? per HA for moorland despite getting a lot more with the present system.

Yes this is surly the correct thing to do, giving someone the same for moorland is crazy

 

[endeavour]

Has the Treaty Of Rome agreement been binned

When it suuits to reduce the agri budget.

 

[IANTO]

I have both peaty big and land that can produce good corn crops all classed SDA

I am not talking about your land, but the thousands of acres north of the Llanrhystyd to Lampeter Road west of Trychrug towards and beyond Llyn Eiddwen? and the mynydd bach.

Would you consider it as productive and worthy of support as your land?