what is problem with MF35 4cyl poor starting after fitting 4 glow plugs

[startinghandle]

this is my second thread here in 2 days and this time it is a MF 35 4cyl which has had a complete engine overhaul including timing chain and also had the head drilled and tapped and fitted with glow plugs but is still very difficult to start and when it does eventually fire up it runs rough and smokes for a few minutes, I did say that it had a complete overhaul but the injector pump was not serviced, the new glowplugs are wired direct from the wire which originally fed the manifold heater plug... I have not seen the tractor as it is some distance away but it is causing the elderly owner some anxiety

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

why the hell did they fit 4 heater plugs, there really is no need,

the problem is the job was not done right, and if done right, it will start no problem,
as for what is wrong with it, its a start from scratch and do it again properly,
there is so many things that has to be right on them, and cutting corners will end up with the above not starting

I could go into great depth, but this would mean a full total rebuild, and really that is the only way to cure it

 

[roscoe erf]

@Thick Farmer

 

[REStracTORATION]

Timing timing timing they are fiddly to setup it's hard to explain on here.

Check timing 1st
Compression test

As @Pennine Ploughing says they don't need the 4 plugs really people fit them as a corner cut.

 

[Henarar]

this is my second thread here in 2 days and this time it is a MF 35 4cyl which has had a complete engine overhaul including timing chain and also had the head drilled and tapped and fitted with glow plugs but is still very difficult to start and when it does eventually fire up it runs rough and smokes for a few minutes, I did say that it had a complete overhaul but the injector pump was not serviced, the new glowplugs are wired direct from the wire which originally fed the manifold heater plug... I have not seen the tractor as it is some distance away but it is causing the elderly owner some anxiety

I have glow plugs on my 35 and they are NOT wired from the old heater plug wire they are wired direct from the battery via a relay that is worked by the ignition switch
No idea if this is why yours will not start but mine will don't matter if is -10

 

[startinghandle]

thanks for reply pennine ploughing I am not arguing about what you are saying but the MF 35 four cylinder was always a bad starter as I thought ... there used to be a small repair firm in Newtown which is long gone who used to buy old 35 4 cyl very cheap and to make starting better the piston crown was filled with weld and the valves were modified and after they would start good one more point is the same engine was used in an Allis Chalmers but I cant remember which model and they were good starters because they were fitted with glow plugs in each cylinder

 

[REStracTORATION]

thanks for reply pennine ploughing I am not arguing about what you are saying but the MF 35 four cylinder was always a bad starter as I thought ... there used to be a small repair firm in Newtown which is long gone who used to buy old 35 4 cyl very cheap and to make starting better the piston crown was filled with weld and the valves were modified and after they would start good one more point is the same engine was used in an Allis Chalmers but I cant remember which model and they were good starters because they were fitted with glow plugs in each cylinder

Timing is crucial on these engines

 

[Chuckie]

thanks for reply pennine ploughing I am not arguing about what you are saying but the MF 35 four cylinder was always a bad starter as I thought ... there used to be a small repair firm in Newtown which is long gone who used to buy old 35 4 cyl very cheap and to make starting better the piston crown was filled with weld and the valves were modified and after they would start good one more point is the same engine was used in an Allis Chalmers but I cant remember which model and they were good starters because they were fitted with glow plugs in each cylinder

I think it was the allis Chalmers ed40 that used the same engine.

 

[Mursal]

Always notoriously hard to start ............
Unless we just got a bad batch, over here?

To help without stripping out:
As mentioned above, make sure all 4 heater plugs are getting full battery voltage across them? Starter cranking speed is very low so if that can be improved, all the better? Check all connections and starter suitability. Battery fully charged, alternator instead of the dynamo will help if he's only tipping about. But this is easily checked with good jump leads from another directly onto the starter. To the best of my knowledge, high speed starters are available, so if everything else is good, it might be worth considering.
Best to work it a bit first before spending more stripping it down, if its only freshly built?

 

[Ray]

this is my second thread here in 2 days and this time it is a MF 35 4cyl which has had a complete engine overhaul including timing chain and also had the head drilled and tapped and fitted with glow plugs but is still very difficult to start and when it does eventually fire up it runs rough and smokes for a few minutes, I did say that it had a complete overhaul but the injector pump was not serviced, the new glowplugs are wired direct from the wire which originally fed the manifold heater plug... I have not seen the tractor as it is some distance away but it is causing the elderly owner some anxiety

If you've fitted four individual glow plugs you will also need a ballast resister to regulate the voltage across them. IIRC they operate at less than 12v each to prevent them burning out. On IH B275's and the like, there is such a resister on the dash that can be seen glowing when heated. Early diesel land rovers also have such resisters fitted. If a 12v supply has just been connected it may well have burnt out some if not all of the new glow plugs upon the first time used, resulting in your poor starting / running you describe.

 

[Ley253]

been overhauled? MMMM friend had one that had been overhauled, and was a pig to start, and, yes the piston recess`s had been filled with weld! Problem was the wrong head gasket, it didnt seal on the liner tops, so compression was going past the outside of the liners into the sump! (Slip fit liners on these) Engine was rebuilt with new pistons, correct head gasket, and the combustion chamber throats opened out. Now starts instantly what ever the weather, with no heat.

 

[manhill]

Me squirts some extra diesel in small hole above the heater, covers the air intake while cranking, keeps a good battery fully charged, says a little prayer and if the bas**** doesn't start: Ether!

 

[multi power]

Heat mine until it pops and then away she goes
Good battery is essential

 

[Mursal]

And they just love a hill, start ............

 

[Henarar]

And they just love a hill, start ............

yep all you need is a shed at the top of a hill to keep it in and the jobs a good un

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Me squirts some extra diesel in small hole above the heater, covers the air intake while cranking, keeps a good battery fully charged, says a little prayer and if the bas**** doesn't start: Ether!

no wonder it won't start, simple rule here, fire needs oxygen, no oxygen no burn, so you covering the intake, this starves it of oxygen, then you squirt extra diesel on the heater plug, now if the diesel does not burn, it will make everything wet and cold, I mean what good is that, but let's say it does burn, this will eat up the little bit of oxygen that is left, remember you covered the air intake to stop any air getting in, and after all that you wonder why it won't start, oh and sayings a little prayer to them above, doing the above is about the total opposite of try to start an engine, but your not alone I have seen it many times in the past,

 

[Badshot]

no wonder it won't start, simple rule here, fire needs oxygen, no oxygen no burn, so you covering the intake, this starves it of oxygen, then you squirt extra diesel on the heater plug, now if the diesel does not burn, it will make everything wet and cold, I mean what good is that, but let's say it does burn, this will eat up the little bit of oxygen that is left, remember you covered the air intake to stop any air getting in, and after all that you wonder why it won't start, oh and sayings a little prayer to them above, doing the above is about the total opposite of try to start an engine, but your not alone I have seen it many times in the past,

i think the covering the intake results in an excess (fuel rich mixture) of fuel (ala ford trick button), plus creates a vacuum which when released fills the system with fresh clean air in a rush. I've used said trick on an old 35 many times, it works,

 

[Timbo]

i think the covering the intake results in an excess (fuel rich mixture) of fuel (ala ford trick button), plus creates a vacuum which when released fills the system with fresh clean air in a rush. I've used said trick on an old 35 many times, it works,

Also allows engine to spin over faster then "catch" when you release the vacuum.

 

[Courier]

Replace the tractor for a DB 3 cylinder tractor with a good battery - 15 seconds spinning on the starter motor with the A/R screwed in BEFORE you attempt anything. Jobs a gud un.

On a more practical note some folk do not use antifreeze but drain radiator and block when not being used then fill radiator with HOT water just before wanting to start - But whatever you do, don't forget to drain again as soon as you stop the engine, even an hours lunch break at a severe minus temperature can split the block.....

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

i think the covering the intake results in an excess (fuel rich mixture) of fuel (ala ford trick button), plus creates a vacuum which when released fills the system with fresh clean air in a rush. I've used said trick on an old 35 many times, it works,

no sorry I don't buy that,
diesel will not ignite unless it's atomized and under pressure, so the excess fuel idea don't work as in hand over the intake, Fords idea of excess fuel was injected under pressure that's why it worked,
most engine wear occurs at start up, and the only thing that may help the starting with covering the intake, is the fact that the engine turning over with no air getting into it, the temperature of the pistons and liners increasing in temperature due to friction, a rise in a small amount in temperature will aid starting no end,