what point worth owning round baler?

[dannewhouse]

we own our own and do around 1000 silage and 600 straw (belt baler)

ours is an older baler so doesn't really get as much in as newer ones or nock on as fast but we can probably average 40 an hour in good grass so not bad. but at what point do we jump to a new/3yr old machine to get that bit more in a bale? our baler stands us at 0, a new baler at 25k would take some paying for but a contractor at 2.50 or near 3 for chopped it would be better in my eyes to own our own as we could bale in a morning not whenever they turn up, so we aren't leading and wrapping half the night. we would like to start chopping silage but our baler doesn't have knives so we are in a bit of a dilemma however I don't think it will be this year.

what do others think the tipping point is? 2k bales/year? 5k?
or like most other things do you have a man spare to bale?

dairy farm I work for bale everything 2500 bales, used to do it all themselves but are letting contractor do 1st cut, I think they'd be better swapping their ageing baler for a bit newer and baleing themselves let contractor lead in, works out cheaper per bale, its a 4 mile lead (we wrap them at other farm but contractor could lead back to main farm!) and we could get more bales done in a day as they would be stopping baleing to go milk contractor could carry on leading and me wrap/stacking whearas at the moment contractor only does 150 max in morning and we are lead in and wrapped up by 4pm for them to be back milking. we could probably get 250 done with contractor leading, just works out deere paying contractor for both jobs.

 

[Johnny Deere]

Cows make money balers dont. You might know who the most reliable contractor in your area is approach him and tell him your situation.
Its not just the price of the baler net wrap fuel and wear and tear.
From experience if your fast enough to pay the contractor hes fast enough into the field

 

[buakaw cvx]

the man above gives good advice, id be wanting to be doing several thousand before thinking of my own kit

 

[wasted years]

It boils down to whether you want the work of maintaining the equipment IMO, most people who tell you it is cheaper to hire or use contractors don't know one end of a spanner from another.
I favour owning my own tackle every time, there is no need to spend 25k for 1600 bales a year.

 

[KB6930]

You'll pick up a good used baler with around the 20000 bales mark for mid teens of 000's that will make really good bales and you'll get your baleing done as and when you want it for a lot of years to come and also if you've got something you can bale for other people and make some money back on it

 

[Cowabunga]

Labour is the key on most farms. If you have the labour to do the job without doing ridiculous hours or neglecting some other work or losing timeliness, crack on with your own kit for that many bales. If not, get the contractor in.

 

[Johnny Deere]

You'll pick up a good used baler with around the 20000 bales mark for mid teens of 000's that will make really good bales and you'll get your baleing done as and when you want it for a lot of years to come and also if you've got something you can bale for other people and make some money back on it

Dont agree with that.
I dont know any contractor that drives into a field and cuts it without talking to the farmer.
Theres very few now that dont have a spare baler that if one breaks they have a backup plan.
Like i said theres good ones and bad ones.
But to say you can do it when you want is total rubbish.
Find a good contractor ring him with a small bit of notice and it will be done when you want.
The day you want to do it yourself you get delayed milking.
Then you need to go down and change the wires for the cows.
Grab a bite to eat.
Put on the baler theres a burst hose you run to town to get a new one put it on the baler.
Make 20 bales and a chain breaks or theres something wrong with the tractor or something wrong with the wrapper or the tractor wrapping.
Its now 8 in the evening everywheres closed the cows havent been milked and theres rain on the way.
At this point you ring the contractor and ask him to come finish it.
More often than not he will land on and finish the job.
You then need to turn around and draw them in.
If your looking for a tax break buy land or property.
Cows make the money on a dairy farm.
Good planning and communication make the best silage.
Not a second hand round baler

 

[Martin Holden]

Labour is the key on most farms. If you have the labour to do the job without doing ridiculous hours or neglecting some other work or losing timeliness, crack on with your own kit for that many bales. If not, get the contractor in.

good advice

 

[Razorready]

Dont agree with that.
I dont know any contractor that drives into a field and cuts it without talking to the farmer.
Theres very few now that dont have a spare baler that if one breaks they have a backup plan.
Like i said theres good ones and bad ones.
But to say you can do it when you want is total rubbish.
Find a good contractor ring him with a small bit of notice and it will be done when you want.
The day you want to do it yourself you get delayed milking.
Then you need to go down and change the wires for the cows.
Grab a bite to eat.
Put on the baler theres a burst hose you run to town to get a new one put it on the baler.
Make 20 bales and a chain breaks or theres something wrong with the tractor or something wrong with the wrapper or the tractor wrapping.
Its now 8 in the evening everywheres closed the cows havent been milked and theres rain on the way.
At this point you ring the contractor and ask him to come finish it.
More often than not he will land on and finish the job.
You then need to turn around and draw them in.
If your looking for a tax break buy land or property.
Cows make the money on a dairy farm.
Good planning and communication make the best silage.
Not a second hand round baler

You make it sound like contractors just sit and wait for you to ring and jump at the flip of a coin. Most contractors i know pull there hair out with the way the weather is and inevitably someone gets let down not because he dont want to do it simply because he cant do everything before the weather breaks. You are correct in saying the cows make the money but totally wrong in saying a baler doesn’t make money. There is a lot of benefits in running your own cropping machinery especially with uk weather i do agree every farm is different and it does depend a lot on labour but id always try and run my own gear if i can just the way i am

 

[balerman]

Why not buy a new one jointly with the farm you work at.

 

[Razorready]

Why not buy a new one jointly with the farm you work at.

This set up works well for some people i know a farm that owns a baler the other owns the wrapper they both have a mower each and they both help each other both do two cuts

 

[DougD]

Why not buy a new one jointly with the farm you work at.

Don’t know about now but Mchale were doing 0%finance when we bought ours we thought it was better paying a few thousand more for new than a machine that you don’t know. You shouldn’t have anything going wrong for a good few years with that amount of bales a year. after 10 years it’s only done 16000 bales and still worth a good bit of money. It’s a far more enjoyable job when u are sure of your baler and not waiting for something to go wrong. When that happens it’s immediate stress. That’s my take on it we are doing less bales than you

 

[dannewhouse]

Why not buy a new one jointly with the farm you work at.

that is one of my debates, not necessarily to buy it split but that could be an option as I would probably operate it at both spots, the other option would be me own it and contract for them, but that means we aren't having another contractor lead the bales. < we don't want this job as we don't have a loader tractor fit to be doing that amount of work with that weight and don't fancy putting a loader on a different tractor just to destroy it in a shorter time.

at the moment local lad is baleing and chopping them for 2.35 a bale but this wont last forever when his baler or something needs replacing ... so we are looking to "future proof" ourselves.

also debating belt vs roller

it will probably be McHale but for the straw ideally belt but will that manage some wet grass? what about the belt baler with 1 wide belt? shouldn't give the grief of old balers where the belts trip up over each other on short wet grass?
doing both would be 4k bales/year + so would be adding some bales on baler mind I think proper contractors need to be doing like 15k bales to warrant it all and swapping say every 3 years?

 

[dannewhouse]

whats is a good new price on something like a V660 with chopper, any extras worth having?

might look daft with twice the tractors value in the baler! suppose baler is doing the work!

 

[Cowabunga]

Don’t know about now but Mchale were doing 0%finance when we bought ours we thought it was better paying a few thousand more for new than a machine that you don’t know. You shouldn’t have anything going wrong for a good few years with that amount of bales a year. after 10 years it’s only done 16000 bales and still worth a good bit of money. It’s a far more enjoyable job when u are sure of your baler and not waiting for something to go wrong. When that happens it’s immediate stress. That’s my take on it we are doing less bales than you

Its a machine. Machines go wrong. Some people can handle it and some can't and cannot be bothered with repairing stuff. If you can't, and believe me that buying new is no answer, then its another reason to get a contractor.

Over the last four days I've had one slurry tanker blow a sight glass, the other constantly block due to frozen slurry, the Same needs an oil change, the skiddy needs glowplugs and yesterday the loader tractor lost 2/3 of its power. So off I go to get fuel filters and fitted them last night only for the fuel not to flow. Fearing that the lift pump was knackered [It was only fitted six months ago and the original lasted 20 years] I called a mechanic out. He and I were flummoxed for a while and I suggested that the only thing left to check was the newly fitted fuel filter, a genuine New Holland with the latest part number for 60 series and early TM. Looking into the hole in the filter, a Stanadyne type as used by JD, MF et al, instead of seeing down the middle to the base, there was a mass of element right across about a third down. So we fitted an old [new] part number filter and, bugger me, fuel came straight through. So the new genuine fuel filter was faulty! What are the chances of that?
Since I have a batch of calves starting pneumonia and I needed Nuflor to treat them plus a cheque to pay in, and the dealer is near the vet and the bank, I took the filter I had yesterday back. He had another 24 in newly delivered stock and every one he checked was like mine with what looked like mis, assembled elements.

So if you aren't mechanically minded with the patience and wherewithal to cope with adjustments and breakdowns, regardless of available time, don't buy your own machinery. I remember many years ago a local farmer, a neighbour of @Penmoel now, but a neighbour of mine years ago, out baling with a small baler and the knotter playing up. He was dancing up and down in his temper and thumping the baler as hard as he possibly could with a big hammer, presumably trying to knock some sense into it. Don't go there! Some people just aren't wired up right to operate machinery, just like some aren't for animals. If they aren't wired up right, full stop, then it becomes something bigger.

 

[kill]

whats is a good new price on something like a V660 with chopper, any extras worth having?

might look daft with twice the tractors value in the baler! suppose baler is doing the work!

BRAKE's would be a must as modern baler's pick up material very quickly and are way heavier than older machines.

 

[DougD]

Its a machine. Machines go wrong. Some people can handle it and some can't and cannot be bothered with repairing stuff. If you can't, and believe me that buying new is no answer, then its another reason to get a contractor.

Over the last four days I've had one slurry tanker blow a sight glass, the other constantly block due to frozen slurry, the Same needs an oil change, the skiddy needs glowplugs and yesterday the loader tractor lost 2/3 of its power. So off I go to get fuel filters and fitted them last night only for the fuel not to flow. Fearing that the lift pump was knackered [It was only fitted six months ago and the original lasted 20 years] I called a mechanic out. He and I were flummoxed for a while and I suggested that the only thing left to check was the newly fitted fuel filter, a genuine New Holland with the latest part number for 60 series and early TM. Looking into the hole in the filter, a Stanadyne type as used by JD, MF et al, instead of seeing down the middle to the base, there was a mass of element right across about a third down. So we fitted an old [new] part number filter and, bugger me, fuel came straight through. So the new genuine fuel filter was faulty! What are the chances of that?
Since I have a batch of calves starting pneumonia and I needed Nuflor to treat them plus a cheque to pay in, and the dealer is near the vet and the bank, I took the filter I had yesterday back. He had another 24 in newly delivered stock and every one he checked was like mine with what looked like mis, assembled elements.

So if you aren't mechanically minded with the patience and wherewithal to cope with adjustments and breakdowns, regardless of available time, don't buy your own machinery. I remember many years ago a local farmer, a neighbour of @Penmoel now, but a neighbour of mine years ago, out baling with a small baler and the knotter playing up. He was dancing up and down in his temper and thumping the baler as hard as he possibly could with a big hammer, presumably trying to knock some sense into it. Don't go there! Some people just aren't wired up right to operate machinery, just like some aren't for animals. If they aren't wired up right, full stop, then it becomes something bigger.

Believe me I have had lots of episodes of machinery breaking down had a new Holland 841 with floor chains baling silage back about 25 years ago if it wasn’t breaking floor chains it was breaking the wire ropes for the tension springs wouldn’t want to go back to that just because I could fix it but there was nothing worse than on a cracking harvest day waiting for a contractor to come to bale straw then he appears after the dew comes down.having your own means you can do the job when it suits yourself

 

[Penmoel]

It
So if you aren't mechanically minded with the patience and wherewithal to cope with adjustments and breakdowns, regardless of available time, don't buy your own machinery. I remember many years ago a local farmer, a neighbour of @Penmoel now, but a neighbour of mine years ago, out baling with a small baler and the knotter playing up. He was dancing up and down in his temper and thumping the baler as hard as he possibly could with a big hammer, presumably trying to knock some sense into it. Don't go there! Some people just aren't wired up right to operate machinery, just like some aren't for animals. If they aren't wired up right, full stop, then it becomes something bigger.

You are correct not wired up right

I think he brought that baler up here with him

When are you coming to take him back

 

[KB6930]

that is one of my debates, not necessarily to buy it split but that could be an option as I would probably operate it at both spots, the other option would be me own it and contract for them, but that means we aren't having another contractor lead the bales. < we don't want this job as we don't have a loader tractor fit to be doing that amount of work with that weight and don't fancy putting a loader on a different tractor just to destroy it in a shorter time.

at the moment local lad is baleing and chopping them for 2.35 a bale but this wont last forever when his baler or something needs replacing ... so we are looking to "future proof" ourselves.

also debating belt vs roller

it will probably be McHale but for the straw ideally belt but will that manage some wet grass? what about the belt baler with 1 wide belt? shouldn't give the grief of old balers where the belts trip up over each other on short wet grass?
doing both would be 4k bales/year + so would be adding some bales on baler mind I think proper contractors need to be doing like 15k bales to warrant it all and swapping say every 3 years?

If you're looking at McHale the belt baler will put anything no matter how wet into a bale I've not had any problems with short grass but they don't like things crops if it's not got a bigger even feed it's easy to flip a belt but honestly either the McHale or a welger belt baler will bale pretty much anything I've only once struggled to bale grass once in 10 yrs and it was very short very thin wet crop we didn't have a rake then. Now I wouldn't have a problem putting anything into a bale with my McHale

I wouldn't want 1 big wide belt as after baleing grass you'll need to scrape the rollers off as the short grass gets stuck between the belt and the rollers so 3 smaller belts are easier to move around for cleaning

 

[KB6930]

Dont agree with that.
I dont know any contractor that drives into a field and cuts it without talking to the farmer.
Theres very few now that dont have a spare baler that if one breaks they have a backup plan.
Like i said theres good ones and bad ones.
But to say you can do it when you want is total rubbish.
Find a good contractor ring him with a small bit of notice and it will be done when you want.
The day you want to do it yourself you get delayed milking.
Then you need to go down and change the wires for the cows.
Grab a bite to eat.
Put on the baler theres a burst hose you run to town to get a new one put it on the baler.
Make 20 bales and a chain breaks or theres something wrong with the tractor or something wrong with the wrapper or the tractor wrapping.
Its now 8 in the evening everywheres closed the cows havent been milked and theres rain on the way.
At this point you ring the contractor and ask him to come finish it.
More often than not he will land on and finish the job.
You then need to turn around and draw them in.
If your looking for a tax break buy land or property.
Cows make the money on a dairy farm.
Good planning and communication make the best silage.
Not a second hand round baler

Are you having a laugh careful planning in the usual weather we get now a contractor can only be in 1 place at a time having your own gear is worth it to get the work done when you want it not when a contractor can turn up

Modern balers will put many tens of thousands of bales on without missing a beat my McHale has just been sold with 30000 bales on and has had 2 bearings other than that it's been greased oil bottle filled and a couple of chains tightened since new