whats the cheapest way to fatten weaned lambs in July

[Chasingmytail]

Planning ahead - Next year the lambs are going to be finished early (this is after Ive talked about this for 2 years - yawn). Havent a lot of ewes as we culled a lot this year so only 80 and with cashflow at the mo cant see us buying any replacements. What we want to do is wean them and get them on a further head start as there are only a few months to get them fat and gone (say September) so thats 2 months, strip grazed system. Is there a cheap crop to plant that works well for the return being ready to graze in July. Have planted stubble turnips this year but its too expensive and wont be ready for some time.

Am I doing this right? Or is 2 months too short a time on what are small lambs - aim is 40kg. Or should the ewes and lambs go on together. How do you work out a good system on lambs born April on organic system within reliance on creep. Or is topping up creep the cheapest way (assuming all the lambs eat it that is) If we did top up with cereal any cheaper way of doing this (note no bulk storage) and to work this out how many kg would a lamb need per day so I can work out costs. Years ago we used to creep feed the young lambs and wonder if this is the best and only way? to reach a better weight earlier on. But its got to financially work. Prefer not to have tons of plastic building up on farm either.

Trying to improve our system. Yes some of the lays are tired but again financially can only justify improving one field per year. No point ploughing in so much money for little return.

Much appreciate your experience and costs on this

 

[Yale]

Genetics and feed.

You need fast growing and finishing genetics and good grass leys.

 

[Yale]

Have you ph tested the grassland as spreading lime improves palatability and availability of minerals.

 

[Al R]

Do you grow winter cereals?
Stubble turnips sown in April (on a normal year with no drought in April and May) will finish a lot of lambs, I had a 1/3 of a crop this year DD turnips. Finished 2/3 of the lambs in 6 weeks. It would’ve been a fantastic crop if it hadn’t been drought for 8 weeks as it was starting off.

 

[andybk]

as above , buy good shaped moderate sized rams from a forage background , as above good genetics is key so do your homework , feed ewes well on maybe fodder beet and watch pests (worms / cocci) like a hawk . if you dont have clean grazing , rolled barley / oats and creep 50/50 set lambs up right

 

[Al R]

as above , buy good shaped moderate sized rams from a forage background , as above good genetics is key so do your homework , feed ewes well on maybe fodder beet and watch pests (worms / cocci) like a hawk . if you dont have clean grazing , rolled barley / oats and creep 50/50 set lambs up right

@Chasingmytail ive got quite a few texel rams spare if you wanted to try the genetic route first.

 

[delilah]

We have similar number of ewes, on tired old pasture. Two routes: sell direct as lamb boxes, or sell at weaning. Anything else and just falling between two stools, IMO.

 

[Yale]

@Chasingmytail ive got quite a few texel rams spare if you wanted to try the genetic route first.

I will throw a spanner in the works and recommend Charolais as they grow and finish quicker and that is from experience as we have both on farm.

Or maybe it’s just the superior genetics of @neilo ’s rams.

Sorry Al.

 

[Al R]

I will throw a spanner in the works and recommend Charolais as they grow and finish quicker and that is from experience as we have both on farm.

Or maybe it’s just the superior genetics of @neilo ’s rams.

Sorry Al.

No problem I’ve just got a few texels spare that are well proven, as I’m going predominately chartex’s I’ve kept 10 chartex ram lambs back this year and on Friday they’ll all be out but a few texel yearlings, 2-3-4’s are still around

 

[spin cycle]

not meaning to be unkind to op but it sounds a bit running with hare hunting with hounds

 

[neilo]

I agree, genetics and management both play a part. If you feed poor growth genetics well, they just run to fat at light weights.

On the fattening system, there was a Farming Connect competition at Newtown College a few years ago, with teams taking bunches of weaned lambs and fattening them on 2ac plots. I think most systems were tried, from creep feeders on the old pp, through grazing rape/kale hybrids to an IRG/brassica mix. All costs were taken into account, with any unfinished lambs or surplus crop remaining at the end getting valued as well.
I seem to remember the runaway winner was the IRG/brassica mix, as lambs didn’t take a check when they went on, as they do moving from grass to brassicas. I’ve grown the same myself, and the output from it is incredible compared to a straight brassica, with the IRG still being there for a valuable early bite early next Spring.
It is a nitrogen hungry mix though, so might struggle on an organic system. The same mix with an annual clover in would get round that, or an IRG/annual clover mix like ProtoPlus from @Great In Grass ?

Alternatively, do what most other organic sheep farmers do. Put a red clover crop in for 3 years, take a cut of silage then finish lambs on the aftermath. Rocket fuel for lactating ewes too, if you don’t want the silage.

 

[Nithsdale]

We have similar number of ewes, on tired old pasture. Two routes: sell direct as lamb boxes, or sell at weaning. Anything else and just falling between two stools, IMO.

I always thought the expression was "stuck between a rock and a hard place"...


But yeah, your 2 turds sums it up better

 

[puppet]

Are you overstocked? I cannot see the need for creep feeding lambs in the summer when there should be plenty grass. The finances don't stack up especially organic cereals.
If you want them away early then lamb earlier than April, shut some grass off to ensure plenty milk and you should be drawing fat lambs off mothers in June. Your organic status may mean slower grass growth -muck or slurry available for a Spring boost?
You should not need bulk storage for lambs in summer. We only go through around 2 tons feed a year for 220 ewes and almost nothing to a lamb unless leftovers in January.

 

[GreenerGrass]

I don't know what breed you have. But my guess is they are smaller than average.

My conclusion with sheep is yes absolutely there is variation in genetic quality and growth rates. Not all rams are the same etc....

But as an overall guide the lambs grow to a % of the adult weight within a given time (being a split of the ewe and ram weight) eg people talk of ewe lambs people say 60% adult weight before tupping. Clearly this target weight will vary significantly between flocks.

Based on a 40kg carcass you want... for your sheep to finish in that timeframe, 5 months, you need pretty big sheep to do it. Eg 50kg ewe and 80kg ram, 39kg would be 60%. I'd wager a lot of the posters on this thread have sheep even bigger than this.

Maybe some of the posters could share their average ewe and average ram weights. Fwiw mine are 40kg and 55-60kg. A bigger terminal will speed things up, but mine will take longer to reach a set weight because it's a bigger % of the adult weight that they need to get to.

If you've a smaller breed you are pushing water up a hill to try and race against big commercials and are better to not to try and race, but have a different system.. or if you want to join them change your breed... Or give your lambs a big head start and lamb them earlier. We had a few of ours lamb in Jan and the ram lambs were ready August and just sent some more yesterday... Or sell your lambs as stores if you don't want to change any of the three previous.

 

[neilo]

I don't know what breed you have. But my guess is they are smaller than average.

My conclusion with sheep is yes absolutely there is variation in genetic quality and growth rates. Not all rams are the same etc....

But as an overall guide the lambs grow to a % of the adult weight within a given time (being a split of the ewe and ram weight) eg people talk of ewe lambs people say 60% adult weight before tupping. Clearly this target weight will vary significantly between flocks.

Based on a 40kg carcass you want... for your sheep to finish in that timeframe, 5 months, you need pretty big sheep to do it. Eg 50kg ewe and 80kg ram, 39kg would be 60%. I'd wager a lot of the posters on this thread have sheep even bigger than this.

Maybe some of the posters could share their average ewe and average ram weights. Fwiw mine are 40kg and 55-60kg. A bigger terminal will speed things up, but mine will take longer to reach a set weight because it's a bigger % of the adult weight that they need to get to.

If you've a smaller breed you are pushing water up a hill to try and race against big commercials and are better to not to try and race, but have a different system.. or if you want to join them change your breed... Or give your lambs a big head start and lamb them earlier. We had a few of ours lamb in Jan and the ram lambs were ready August and just sent some more yesterday... Or sell your lambs as stores if you don't want to change any of the three previous.

Adult weight is no guide to growth rate. Even within breeds, recording has shown that you get big animals that grow slowly (but keep growing for longer) and animals that grow fast and then slow down. That’s the whole premise of selective breeding for performance, whether using Signet or otherwise.

Where mature weights do give you a guide is on ideal finishing weights, which is just a level of maturity. The very rough guide is at half the average of sire & dam’s average mature weights most lambs will slow down growth and lay down the fat that we know as ‘finish’.
The speed at which they get there is down to genetic merit for growth and the nutritional input, not necessarily mature weights themselves.

 

[GreenerGrass]

Adult weight is no guide to growth rate.

If you have a sheep breed with a 40kg mature weight and a breed with an 80kg mature weight, you are absolutely wrong in saying the weight of the breed is not a determinant in when they hit a set target weight.

 

[neilo]

If you have a sheep breed with a 40kg mature weight and a breed with an 80kg mature weight, you are absolutely wrong in saying the weight of the breed is not a determinant in when they hit a set target weight.

I have no experience of 40kg mature weight sheep, nor do I wish to have. However, if you have all your sheep of a type/breed that will top out at 80kg, genetic variation will mean that some grow very much faster than others. That is why breeders have been selecting for generations.

@NZDan has some small mature weight ewes, who's growth performance would likely be comparable to a lot of much bigger sheep that had been put under so much selection pressure.

 

[Al R]

If you have a sheep breed with a 40kg mature weight and a breed with an 80kg mature weight, you are absolutely wrong in saying the weight of the breed is not a determinant in when they hit a set target weight.

I’m happy with my 60kg welsh, I had a few this year killing 70kg of lamb by 13 weeks old. Yes 35kg LW but they’ll bring back 16-16.5kg R3L dead, if I wanted them 40-42kg live they’d be 4H’s. This time of year now when they’ve put frame on they can now go to 48-50kg before they go over 4L’s.

@Chasingmytail how much of the business relies on the sheep? It might be easier to sell as stores or rent a few fields nearby, worm and creep them on it and sell the lambs conventional.
Get your vet involved and get the odd fec done, with the vet’s authority you can do what you want on the organic side as animal welfare is priority

 

[GreenerGrass]

The reason for terminal sires is that they are bigger mature breeds than the common maternal ewes. There is a huge correlation in adult weight and growth. Of course there are outliers and room for genetic improvement, maybe you missed that in my first post. I'm a big advocate of that. But as per Al above. You can't expect Shetlands to fit into the same 40kg commercial box. So you either change your system to suit the breed you have, kill at lighter weights, creep or run on longer... Or your breed to suit the system (if you want to hit 40kg every September).

 

[Chasingmytail]

Easycare and to be honest I like them - we have a tiny % fly strike, hardy and feet issue zero all in all a breed that suits our system however the lambs are small born (very easy to birth). Fec is low actually very good as on continual rotation. No other issues now. (borders disease came back negative and we culled a lot this year) lamb losses are very low. What with finances not filtering anymore cash into the farm as our income comes in off the farm via groundworks however like most its not great at the mo and watching cashflow like a hawk.

We've put in stubble turnips ready around Dec but I couldnt believe the cost of the seed plus overheads so wont be doing that again. Thats not cost effective. Wasnt my decision and in hindsight not great. After this this field will be put to a high quality seed mix with high clover.

Yes terminal sire good but easy lambing and low fly stike is high on our agenda. All lambs are sold conventional but not interested in farming off the farm. Our time is aimed at the groundworks and farming here.

Id say our ewes are 60kg plus. Tups I havent weighed recently but got to be close to 80kg. Yes we are considering putting them in this week to get the 4 weeks head start however, the issue again is the end of march weather and poor grass growth seen considerably poor over the last 3 years as its been blinkin cold.