What's your preferred trace element mix?

[SilliamWhale]

I usually buy an IBC of Manganese every year and lash a bit on with the sprayer. I've done tissue tests in the past because I felt they were relatively dear and I wasn't gaining a lot. But I still use the manganese for the barley even though I'm not sure its any measurable difference.

But given that trace elements in an ibc are relatively cheap do you have a preferred mix that you use regularly on your soils that you feel gives a benefit?

 

[teslacoils]

Straight mag or man. I've used fancier stuff but never managed to make it pay.

 

[Brisel]

I've done more comprehensive soil tests and plant tissue tests in the past. Boron always showed up as low. Manganese - not so often though I know the risk from previous regular clinical symptoms at certain times of the year on certain soil types. Potassium always came up as low in tissue tests in March/April but I do wonder whether that's just the rapid biomass gain using K as fast as it can be mobilised. Magnesium deficiency showed up later on from late stem extension onwards. Copper in spring barley on high pH soils.

The simple answer for me was to make sure brassicas get boron, cereals get manganese in early spring and magnesium with flag & ear sprays. I try and apply fresh K each season too. That was on chalk soil. I'm on clay now & they use manganese only.

I do remember John Selwyn standing in a hole (he did that for a living for a long time!) and saying, "if your soil is healthy and well structured, you don't need trace elements other than manganese occasionally and copper on some cereals on chalk soils."

1 litre (150 grammes/ha) of manganese is less than 50p from an IBC. Why wouldn't you if you'd seen deficiency before? Start applying several with every tank load it soon starts to add up, especially when it doesn't mix with certain herbicides. CMPP/mecoprop and MnSO4 chelate is a classic example of 2 products you only put together once!

 

[EddieB]

We put Mn on our cereal crops with most sprayer passes, particularly barley on our lightest soils. Once symptoms appear the leaf loss can be quite horrible.

 

[MNBVCXZ]

The element applied isn’t necessarily the issue, the multiple mix and timing of probably is.

 

[teslacoils]

Tbh a bit of mag / man is always worth it if just for the green flush.

 

[Secret Agronomist]

Liquid or DF manganese, discuss!
I tend to use 1.5kg of DF which gives about 465g.

 

[PSQ]

Liquid or DF manganese, discuss!
I tend to use 1.5kg of DF which gives about 465g.

Liquid only, as I really dont like the thought of breathing in Mn dust and the associated risk of 'manganism' in later life, which has symptoms very similar to Parkinsons disease. It's a risk I'm not willing to take just to save a few quid a year.

 

[teslacoils]

Liquid. Life's to short to be titsing about with bags of powder.

 

[Secret Agronomist]

Liquid only, as I really dont like the thought of breathing in Mn dust and the associated risk of 'manganism' in later life, which has symptoms very similar to Parkinsons disease. It's a risk I'm not willing to take just to save a few quid a year.

So do you put on 3L of liquid to give the same effect then?

 

[Cutlerstom]

I usually buy an IBC of Manganese every year and lash a bit on with the sprayer. I've done tissue tests in the past because I felt they were relatively dear and I wasn't gaining a lot. But I still use the manganese for the barley even though I'm not sure its any measurable difference.

But given that trace elements in an ibc are relatively cheap do you have a preferred mix that you use regularly on your soils that you feel gives a benefit?

Ive switched from manganese nitrite to Manzi. Its a little more £ (£1.70/l i think) than straight Mn, but has a little Mg and Zn in too, and these were always short on tissue tests, every year (along with boron)
Mn is interesting though. Because we routinly use it, and it always shows as adequate or high on tissue test, I never worry about it, but having done a sap test last year, it showed up as low, even though the tissue analysis didnt, and then grain analysis also showed low Mn. Maybe more to it than meets the eye, but I'm pretty confident now that tissue testing is a waste of time as it doesnt appear to tell us a clear picture, and is generally what we should have done 3 weeks ago, rather than what we can do now!

 

[SilliamWhale]

The element applied isn’t necessarily the issue, the multiple mix and timing of probably is.

Don't quite understand what you are saying?

 

[Cutlerstom]

Don't quite understand what you are saying?

Ive learned a lot (or heard a lot) from podcasts and webinars regarding the efficiencies of foliar treatments. What I take from these (and this applies to a lot of ag chems too) is that I need to take more care in formulation and application. This means thinking about the water hardness, rain water is better, but failing that do we need to drop the pH, or try and remove some of the carbonates. Add a chelator - Fuliv acid has a CEC of 5000 or so, and seems to improve uptake of applied nutrients and herbicides. Molasses is also good I hear. Are we using the right nozzles to hit as much of both sides of the leaf as we can? Is the RH ok? Application ideally needs to be made early morning when the humidity is high and stomata open. heat of the day = decreased uptake.
Personally, I have not been paying enough attention to detail with these things, and as a consequence, perhaps am not getting the reponses from TE that I hope for...

 

[MNBVCXZ]

Don't quite understand what you are saying?

I read your opening message as, which multi mix should I be using!
If this is correct be careful as you probably won’t buy enough of anything in a pre formulated mix that will be of real value. As @Brisel says target the element at specific timings and use plenty of it, concentration gradient etc. Also I’ve seen many many tissue tests which have lead to an application of x/y/z only to be tested again to find the same deficiencies. Thus I question the application of x/y/z.

 

[ajd132]

I use 2l each of mag, mang and 1l of molasses when going through. It back up from tissue test but am going to start playing around with proper sap test from NovaCropControl this season.
I just buy it all in ibc’s, it is cheap and we have measured response. This is on clay soils.
Some ‘agronomy companies’ do a dodgy tissue test then recommend everything possible in small expensive cans or mixtures. Avoid this approach at all costs.

 

[deleted user 837354]

If I had a sizeable area I would probably opt for an IBC of manganese nitrate and sulphate combined. Possibly would add magnesium and zinc as well in some form but would depend highly on the dirt I was on and the kind of cropping I had.

Used manganese with loads of stuff in the past, never seen many issues but I would try to avoid using it with grass weed herbicides.

Used to think the Yara stuff was excellent but obviously a premium product so to be used sparingly.

On clay soils, watching cereals go through that growing pains of a cold late spring is miserable, they soon pick themselves up with a dose of manganese, used to do it twice where needed.

I used to see the discolouration and grief in crops on beautiful soils that were very fertile and had been grass for years so the idea you will avoid needing all these trace elements if you soil is 'right' I feel is probably unrealistic for many. Perhaps if you have big levels of OM through years of direct drilling etc?

 

[robbie]

Ive switched from manganese nitrite to Manzi. Its a little more £ (£1.70/l i think) than straight Mn, but has a little Mg and Zn in too, and these were always short on tissue tests, every year (along with boron)
Mn is interesting though. Because we routinly use it, and it always shows as adequate or high on tissue test, I never worry about it, but having done a sap test last year, it showed up as low, even though the tissue analysis didnt, and then grain analysis also showed low Mn. Maybe more to it than meets the eye, but I'm pretty confident now that tissue testing is a waste of time as it doesnt appear to tell us a clear picture, and is generally what we should have done 3 weeks ago, rather than what we can do now!

Personally I'd stick with the cheapo manganese nitrate/sulphate and add some zn and or cu from a 5 Lt can and a couple kgs of bitter salts, infact probably under a kg would give you far more mg than your getting in the manzi

 

[willy]

MagphosK.

 

[PSQ]

So do you put on 3L of liquid to give the same effect then?

2L.

 

[Cutlerstom]

Personally I'd stick with the cheapo manganese nitrate/sulphate and add some zn and or cu from a 5 Lt can and a couple kgs of bitter salts, infact probably under a kg would give you far more mg than your getting in the manzi

May well have to do that, because I think Mg is a hidden problem here due to high Ca soils, and as you say, the Mg and Zn in Manzi is tiny