When to start putting N on wheat?

[DrWazzock]

I was always told that February nitrogen flattens crops.
RB209 recommends nothing until the start of stem extension, and not before early April, unless it has low tiller numbers.
Yet everybody else seems to start chucking it on now and their crops look strong and green where as mine look crap.
I’ve always held off till April unless it looks disastrously thin but am I wrong? Too many tillers won’t be supported later here on dry sand.

 

[robbie]

All the yen work points to early N to build big biomass. I was on a agronomy update the other day and all the talk was of higher seed rates and early N, the chap admitted it was the opposite to what he used to prescribe but it works even in light land.
I'd say no N till April here would be disasterous and even a good strong plant with muck under it will have gone backwards and lost potential by then, yield is all about ear numbers per m².

 

[yellowbelly]

That was always our practice when we grew cereals on your type of soil.

The theory was to make it go searching for nutrients early on by putting out deeper roots that would help in later in the year when moisture became an issue.

No idea what modern thinking is though

 

[DrWazzock]

Interesting. I must admit my usual approach does feel a bit counter intuitive. It’s as if the crop has almost given up waiting by April and by then it’s usually so dry I wonder how much N actually reaches the roots.
The best crop of winter wheat we had recently on sand was drilled in late January after sheep had eaten off the beet residue. I’m thinking the sheep must have given it a good shot of early N but the late drilling kept tiller numbers down? A bumper crop off some very light dry sand.

 

[DrWazzock]

I was always told that if get too many tillers it won’t fill. But from what I’ve seen, “not filling” is more to do with ear disease. In 2018 here it was incredibly sunny and dry through June July. The grain was was small but perfectly formed, not shrivelled. Too much Rain in June shrivels grains more than drought in some respects.

 

[yellowbelly]

Trouble is, no two years are ever the same, weather wise, so what is best one year maybe isn't the next.

 

[DrWazzock]

Trouble is, no two years are ever the same, weather wise, so what is best one year maybe isn't the next.

Very true.

 

[benny6910]

I was always told that February nitrogen flattens crops.
RB209 recommends nothing until the start of stem extension, and not before early April, unless it has low tiller numbers.
Yet everybody else seems to start chucking it on now and their crops look strong and green where as mine look crap.
I’ve always held off till April unless it looks disastrously thin but am I wrong? Too many tillers won’t be supported later here on dry sand.

Are you dissatisfied with your yields? If you’re happy then why change what you’re doing? I’m not normally early to put the first n on but as dry as it is this year I’ve been around all my own as I couldn’t risk the chance of it being as dry in 2 weeks time. Time will tell if I’ve gone too soon but as dry as it is I’m not too worried.

 

[robbie]

Years ago our old agro was of the opinion you don't want thick crops on light land and early N was a no no, move forward 20 years and my approach is completely different, lots of early N and aim to be finished probably by the time @DrWazzock is putting his first dose on. Big thick crops but crucially they have there N there already when It comes dry. It pays off and we get big yields for our light land something.

A crop is like an animal if it wants to grow it needs it's food, and is detremental letting it go hungry.

 

[ajd132]

ive had yield loss from going to late but not from too early.
I think one thing that is important for us compared to ten years ago is there is much less nitrogen sloshing around the system. Used to all be milling wheat and rape. now much more spring crops that don't get much N.

 

[PSQ]

@DrWazzock time for a split field trial.

It's taken me a long time to realise that most advice in the farming press doesn't work here, in part due to the fact that I don't farm an ADAS research farm in Essex or the Yorkshire Wolds (or wherever) in the 1980's.
All the talk of low seed rates over the last 20 years, it puts wheat on the back foot from the day it's sown. And as for waiting to put first N on in April, that sounds like financial Russian roulette.
I've come around to ditching 'popular advice', with high variable seed rates (based over minimum [12 stone] 183kg/ha, to x1.5) and early N with multiple passes; it grows a consistent crop whatever the weather.

All the yen work points to early N to build big biomass. I was on a agronomy update the other day and all the talk was of higher seed rates and early N, the chap admitted it was the opposite to what he used to prescribe but it works even in light land.
I'd say no N till April here would be disasterous and even a good strong plant with muck under it will have gone backwards and lost potential by then, yield is all about ear numbers per m².

 

[DrWazzock]

@DrWazzock time for a split field trial.

It's taken me a long time to realise that most advice in the farming press doesn't work here, in part due to the fact that I don't farm an ADAS research farm in Essex or the Yorkshire Wolds (or wherever) in the 1980's.
All the talk of low seed rates over the last 20 years, it puts wheat on the back foot from the day it's sown. And as for waiting to put first N on in April, that sounds like financial Russian roulette.
I've come around to ditching 'popular advice', with high variable seed rates (based over minimum [12 stone] 183kg/ha, to x1.5) and early N with multiple passes; it grows a consistent crop whatever the weather.

Yes I was just thinking about a split field trial. I’ve a 10 ha block of fairly uniform sand direct drilled after OSR. It looks so hungry. I’ll split it down the middle and go a month early with the N on one half. It can’t do much worse than it normally does yielding around 2 tons per acre.

 

[le bon paysan]

Simple, if you think end of Feb. is early and April too late go mid March.
If unsure a small field spilt 50/50 some now and some later. Not seen from the road.

 

[DrWazzock]

Years ago our old agro was of the opinion you don't want thick crops on light land and early N was a no no, move forward 20 years and my approach is completely different, lots of early N and aim to be finished probably by the time @DrWazzock is putting his first dose on. Big thick crops but crucially they have there N there already when It comes dry. It pays off and we get big yields for our light land something.

A crop is like an animal if it wants to grow it needs its food, and is detremental letting it go hungry.

I can see a lot of sense in that. The way we do it at the moment it’s just too dry by the time we get the N on and the crop has lost momentum. The leaves are thin and the tillers end up sparse and puny only to get burnt off in June. I’ve seen prills sitting there for a month.
I’d be satisfied with 3 tons per acre but often 2 is what we get. We got 4 with January drilled wheat after beet and sheep on a really poor field which tells the potential is there. I’m just not maximising with my present programme. The sheep must have mineralised a fair dose of early N from those beet tops. Maybe I need to replicate that. I also recall I thought I’d knadgered that crop with Broadway Star and it suffered a bit with mildew which was treated with Talius which is the only timed we’ve ever used that product. Was pleasantly surprised at harvest.

 

[Secret Agronomist]

As said before no two years are the same so you can only go by what works long term for you. I tend to go as soon as NVZ stops here (16th Feb) if possible, some years we get the first dose done on all the winter crops (wheat and rye) by the end of feb sometimes it's mid March. I also tend to have all of the N on wheat and rye by the end of april. Rye is basically 3x50kg doses 1 month apart, wheat get 50/100/50 or thereabouts. However most of our wheat is late drilled after spuds so hasn't got tiller numbers and there is also wheat bulb fly damage to think about as well as root pruning from free living nematodes.

 

[robbie]

I think your answering your own question, you say you have first wheat after rape looking very hungry so why are you waiting till April????? If the crop wants it put it on!!!!!! Farm what's Infront of you.

I know it's easy to farm from over the hedge but even in light land a 1st wheat should pee 3 tons an acre so surely that tells you your strategy isn't working.

The stronger and healthier the plant the better it can withstand stresses.

 

[teslacoils]

If I had £1 for every time an old boy told me one of their sayings....that turned out to be wrong, then I'd be rich now.

One of the few ones that holds up to science is daffodils = fert on. And if you take urea wanting to go on a fortnight earlier, then it wanted to go on a good week ago.

Nice week. Get it hoofed on and rolled when it warms up on Thursday.

 

[teslacoils]

Sheep grazing my grass for three months contribute the thin end if fuch all nitrogen. I put it on the nitrogen calculator but really it's so little to be considered zero.

 

[Cropper]

I think an early dose of 50kgN/ha is necessary, will help tiller survival and produce some vegetative growth when it warms up, think of leaves as solar panels producing the energy to feed the roots, this will just kickstart the plants so that you can then leave the main dose(s) until end March/April.
I remember my uncle telling me 40 years ago that putting a dose of early N on his winter barley gave him an extra 1/2 ton an acre.

 

[Renaultman]

@DrWazzock time for a split field trial.

It's taken me a long time to realise that most advice in the farming press doesn't work here, in part due to the fact that I don't farm an ADAS research farm in Essex or the Yorkshire Wolds (or wherever) in the 1980's.
All the talk of low seed rates over the last 20 years, it puts wheat on the back foot from the day it's sown. And as for waiting to put first N on in April, that sounds like financial Russian roulette.
I've come around to ditching 'popular advice', with high variable seed rates (based over minimum [12 stone] 183kg/ha, to x1.5) and early N with multiple passes; it grows a consistent crop whatever the weather.

I've been using higher seed rates for a few years and definitely feel it has helped yields nearly all HSS so not a massive cost in relation to potential gain. Everything got 50kgN/ha last week, would have liked to give it another week but conditions were ideal and it looked like rain this week. Daffodils just budding here.