Who counts the bee population

[Devil's advocate]

Production of some crops has been decimated due to the loss of insecticides over the last 20 years, sorry 45 years.

Has the bee population increased, if not why not?

 

[Lowland1]

Production of some crops has been decimated due to the loss of insecticides over the last 20 years, sorry 45 years.

Has the bee population increased, if not why not?

Because if the bee population has declined it’s more likely due to loss of habitat than pesticides

 

[Danllan]

Surely a combination of habitat loss and bee-killing pesticides is the obvious cause in decline.

 

[Kidds]

Brock will have played a major role too.
Many insecticides have been withdrawn which narrows the choice. That choice now includes insecticides that are more harmful to bees than those withdrawn.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I thought the loss of bees was down to the mite and had indirectly been blamed on climate change?

 

[renewablejohn]

Whats this loss of bees you talk about. Never had so many swarms captured as I had last year. Of which 3 have managed to survive over winter so at least 120,000 additional bees here this year.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I thought the loss of bees was down to the mite and had indirectly been blamed on climate change?

Possibly put about by the chemical industry to avoid their products being banned.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Surely a combination of habitat loss and bee-killing pesticides is the obvious cause in decline.

But the suspected bee killing pesticides were banned 5 years ago, so we should have more bees, have we?

If I put extra fertiliser on the grass, I would measure yeild to see if it increased.

No point banning insecticides if there is no benefit.

 

[David.]

Local bee man yesterday bemoaning the lack of OSR locally.
Rich irony I thought.

 

[Danllan]

But the suspected bee killing pesticides were banned 5 years ago, so we should have more bees, have we?

If I put extra fertiliser on the grass, I would measure yeild to see if it increased.

No point banning insecticides if there is no benefit.

That would depend on critical mass, fertility, recent year's weather etc. etc.

Do I detect a particular desired outcome / conclusion being veered toward by your posts...

 

[Lowland1]

Surely a combination of habitat loss and bee-killing pesticides is the obvious cause in decline.

Early pesticides were far more harmful than modern chemicals however I’d say the switch to mono cropping is far more harmful. In our fen up to the late nineties you’d have a mix of cereals. Potatoes, beet , peas and other vegetables. All at different growth stages all being sprayed at different times giving the bees a variety of feeds and refuge. Even though we would be spraying things like metasystox ( earlier ) dimethoate and dursban which were pretty nasty. I’d say it’s more habitat than chemicals. Obviously hitting a bee with chemical isn’t going to do it any good but the removal of a mixed diet has probably done more.

 

[Bald Rick]

Varroa is still decimating a lot of hives.

The lot of a bee keeper is not always a happy one

 

[David.]

I doubt that the removal of fairly effective seed dressings have had the hoped for beneficial effect on bee populations, merely pretty well removed a valuable source of nectar.

 

[GeorgeK]

The dose maketh the poison. Bananas are radioactive and drinking too much water will kill you.

Neonics were found to impact bees, but the tests were carried out at far higher concentrations than they would ever be exposed to in crops.

Green propaganda that all chemicals are bad. I see most of the councils that banned glyphosate have quietly started using it again due to physical damage the weeds were causing.

 

[Kidds]

I wouldn't say Dursban was nasty myself and removing Dursban to leave the choice of Decis isn't very clever as far as bees are concerned. If I were a bee I'd sooner take my chances with Dursban.
I'd be happier still if Calypso (thiacloprid) was still available.

 

[melted welly]

Neonics were found to impact bees, but the tests were carried out at far higher concentrations than they would ever be exposed to in crops.

My wife worked on that Stirling University study and it was the main reason behind her leaving a career in science, due to disillusionment.
A lot of it done by the seat of the pants, there was a lack of oversight and results not reported accurately.
One example being the undergrad lab tech tasked with dosing the bees didn’t pick them randomly. The big ones were easiest picked up out of the boxes, so they were all selected first, leaving all the little runts till last.
Allegedly, the results that were published showed a much lower lethal dose than was expected, because the bees that received the lower dose were already weak before being dosed. The big bees that were selected first and all got a high dose largely survived.
Also the dose was given directly to the bees as opposed to via a plant as would be how they would encounter it in a treated crop.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Early pesticides were far more harmful than modern chemicals however I’d say the switch to mono cropping is far more harmful. In our fen up to the late nineties you’d have a mix of cereals. Potatoes, beet , peas and other vegetables. All at different growth stages all being sprayed at different times giving the bees a variety of feeds and refuge. Even though we would be spraying things like metasystox ( earlier ) dimethoate and dursban which were pretty nasty. I’d say it’s more habitat than chemicals. Obviously hitting a bee with chemical isn’t going to do it any good but the removal of a mixed diet has probably done more.

I said this for ages. The complete lack of OSR, beet, potatoes, peas and beans leaves you with cereals and rye- all of which are wind or self pollenating and provide no flowers for the bees.

The green lobby has Uno-reversed itself. Had all the herbicides, fungicides and insecticides banned, now no one bothers to grow them. In years gone you could see linseed, beans and peas all over the place. Not any more you can't.

 

[Danllan]

The dose maketh the poison. Bananas are radioactive and drinking too much water will kill you.

Neonics were found to impact bees, but the tests were carried out at far higher concentrations than they would ever be exposed to in crops.

Green propaganda that all chemicals are bad. I see most of the councils that banned glyphosate have quietly started using it again due to physical damage the weeds were causing.

Sublethal exposure to neonicotinoids and related side effects on insect pollinators: honeybees, bumblebees, and solitary bees - Journal of Plant Diseases and Protection

Nowadays, there are increasing concerns about the bioavailability of neonicotinoids in the environment and possible exposure of nontarget organisms to these insecticides, their residues having been detected at different concentrations in many matrices, i.e., pollen, nectar, soil, water...

link.springer.com

 

[Flatlander]

The general public are responsible for a reduction in numbers more that agriculture. Often seen as frightening scene a swarm word be exterminated, flowering weeds on the lawn sprayed or cut off and vehicles impacting bees all reducing the chances of their demise. It used to be a honey farmer would drop a box of jars if honey off all for siting hives in fields here but now you’re lucky not to get charged to have them on canola. Step daughter was interested in bees so bought her a bunch of hives. Put them into a field of canola and the pod set was visually higher within a quarter mile of the hives compared to the further end.

 

[topground]

Having kept bees for 14 years so a novice, my experience tells me that the weather impacts the survival of honey bee colonies as much as anything else. A dull summer does the survival chances of swarms no good at all. With neo nics banned any treatment of flowering crops for insect infestation will be to a greater detriment to my bees if the sun is shining when the crop is sprayed. The only way I guarantee having sufficient colonies survive the winter is to keep more hives than I really. need.