Who has dreamed up all this rubbish

[delilah]

They probably didn't do so because your link is just to a previous thread of yours and the Pdf attached is your opinion that all area based ELMS should be paid solely to permanent pasture and that arable land doesn't need public money. You have admitted on a previous thread that you are not even a farmer, and refer to the farmers posting on here as muppets who bitch and whine so raises suspicions as to why you are even on this forum. Defra know our contact details so quite easy to get our opinion without posting on TFF which most farmers I know haven't even heard of.

And as I explained in the OP on that thread, I only shared our submission to get the ball rolling. Nobody wanted to play, because nobody wanted to actually do positive stuff.

Due to the internet no agricultural policy has had more chance for input. Blaming Defra is a p!ss poor excuse.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I'm hesitant to point you in the direction of any individuals, but if you take a post code from the centre of an upland national park and enter it into Defra's cap-payments website you can see that there are some chunky environmental payments made to some upland farmers. Of course, these payments (listed under rural development) may include capital grants. Some recipients were big estates, but some were genuine farmers, including tenants on large acreages of desolate moor land.

The RSPB used to publish accounts for their hill farm (which doesn't produce much food) on the banks of Haweswater in the Lakes. From memory that showed environmental subsidy income of somewhere around 300k for a 3000 ac farm. Again, that may include capital grants. I searched for a link but couldn't find one.

I have never looked into upland environmental schemes in any detail, but in the past I have looked at upland farms in England and their equivalent in the borders and I was always struck by the difference in environmental schemes. I think a lot of it is down to the point I noted above, that the Scottish government took its Pillar 2 money and used it to promote forestry while in England the environmental lobby got hold of it.

I don't want to look names up.

Anyway that's in the past

I was more thinking of averages & how much they farmed.

 

[Hilly]

What do they mean by "directly linked to production"? Does that mean headage payments, subsidy per tonne?

I think the problem with the Scottish environmental schemes in the past was that they were poorly funded because all that pot of money got syphoned off to fund forestry planting. If you want to plant trees, Scotland is the place, if you want to farm the uplands, England comes out ahead.

Away with man you have no idea what your talking about .

 

[RichardSou]

And as I explained in the OP on that thread, I only shared our submission to get the ball rolling. Nobody wanted to play, because nobody wanted to actually do positive stuff.

Due to the internet no agricultural policy has had more chance for input. Blaming Defra is a p!ss poor excuse.

And as I explained in the OP on that thread, I only shared our submission to get the ball rolling. Nobody wanted to play, because nobody wanted to actually do positive stuff.

Due to the internet no agricultural policy has had more chance for input. Blaming Defra is a p!ss poor exc

 

[RichardSou]

I don't know what your agenda is - you imply you are a farmer, then admit you are not. You stick up for Defra and say that farmers devised the SFI so it is their fault if they don't like it. Your profile says you have posted 14500 comments so are you just an armchair critic with too much time on your hands?

 

[delilah]

I don't know what your agenda is - you imply you are a farmer, then admit you are not. You stick up for Defra and say that farmers devised the SFI so it is their fault if they don't like it. Your profile says you have posted 14500 comments so are you just an armchair critic with too much time on your hands?

Sussed .

You have had three years to tell Defra what ELMS needed to look like to work for your business. You failed to take the opportunity. Away with you and your bellyaching.

 

[NLF]

Away with man you have no idea what your talking about .

So why are the Scottish lowlands slowly getting covered in pine trees at the expense of farmers? Every hill farm I looked at in the lowlands was bought for forestry.

 

[Hilly]

So why are the Scottish lowlands slowly getting covered in pine trees at the expense of farmers? Every hill farm I looked at in the lowlands was bought for forestry.

Every farm ? You talking nonsense, some yes and not at the expense of the farmers ! The farmers were selling them for small fortunes .

 

[suffolksmallholder]

A long time ago I was at a posh party. There were some ‘famous’ milling about that ordinary folk would recognise but the lasting memory was of one young man from what was then MAFF, with his girlfriend. She was niece to my host.
She was simpering over her new ‘catch’ and he was braying about his high powered job on the fisheries side and the benefits of his future pension.
What incensed me was his lack of knowledge on anything to do with fishing and the fact that he was under thirty and so focussed on a supposed bonus more than thirty five years in the future

These are the people who hold Farmers lively hoods in their hands. FFS

I did talk to Ian Hislop and he is so very, very funny and his heart and soul is in a good place.
SS

 

[NLF]

Every farm ? You talking nonsense, some yes and not at the expense of the farmers ! The farmers were selling them for small fortunes .

Ha ha... you won't drop the bone will you!

 

[Hilly]

Ha ha... you won't drop the bone will you!

No cos i can not stand bull shitters . Tell the truth or bog off.

 

[NLF]

No cos i can not stand bull shitters . Tell the truth or bog off.

Ouch. I have been properly put in my place. Would that be your version of the truth? Well, I'm off out into the real world. Enjoy your evening online.

 

[Hilly]

Ouch. I have been properly put in my place. Would that be your version of the truth? Well, I'm off out into the real world. Enjoy your evening online.

The real world where every lowland farm in Scotland is planted with trees at the expense of farmers . Hmmm fantasy world. Fortunately the buying of land for trees in scotland has calmed down alot now ……. You will be pleased to hear .

 

[RichardSou]

Sussed .

You have had three years to tell Defra what ELMS needed to look like to work for your business. You failed to take the opportunity. Away with you and your bellyaching.

 

[RichardSou]

Definitely sussed. I think you are what is generally referred to as a troll so pointless trying to educate you.

 

[serf]

did talk to Ian Hislop and he is so very, very funny and his heart and soul is in a good place.

Did you get him to do his Jimmy Somerville impression

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Did you get him to do his Jimmy Somerville impression

No, but he was an absolute joy to talk to.
SS

 

[Hindsight]

A long time ago I was at a posh party. There were some ‘famous’ milling about that ordinary folk would recognise but the lasting memory was of one young man from what was then MAFF, with his girlfriend. She was niece to my host.
She was simpering over her new ‘catch’ and he was braying about his high powered job on the fisheries side and the benefits of his future pension.
What incensed me was his lack of knowledge on anything to do with fishing and the fact that he was under thirty and so focussed on a supposed bonus more than thirty five years in the future

These are the people who hold Farmers lively hoods in their hands. FFS

I did talk to Ian Hislop and he is so very, very funny and his heart and soul is in a good place.
SS

My daughter and I went to the Private Eye annual 'An evening with Private Eye' as the Criterion in December. Hislop was on good form as compere. The audience was as one would expect from the readership. MY daughter was most out of place! Even I felt young!

 

[NLF]

The real world where every lowland farm in Scotland is planted with trees at the expense of farmers . Hmmm fantasy world. Fortunately the buying of land for trees in scotland has calmed down alot now ……. You will be pleased to hear .

Hmmm.... I didn't say every lowland farm was planted with trees. I said every hill farm I looked at. By that I meant every farm I looked at that was for sale. I probably visited about half a dozen farms over three years, all in the hillier bits of the lowlands (Tweedsmuir, Pentlands etc). All but one (a grouse moor) were bought for forestry. In one case their offer was 50% over the guide. As you say, nice money for retiring farmers or for the landlords who were not re-letting the properties after their tenants retired.

The original point I made was that upland farming subsidies were better in England. On average the hill farms I viewed were, at that time, making something around 50k in subsidies (over 1500-2000 acres of moorland). In contrast, the English equivalents in places like the Dales or Lakes were often making 150k on similar acreages through BPS and stewardship. This was about 2014-17.

I am glad to hear that the expansion of forestry has slowed. There's some really nice countryside in the lowlands and with the combination of spruce trees and wind turbines it appeared that the Scottish government was determined to change that.

 

[Timbo]

local agricultural supplier was telling me, that to buy fertliser now you need a photo ID, and he was asking his customers to email him one, anyway he said 18% of his customers did not have email.

Never !!!!!!!!