Who should be maintaining drains?

[Will Blackburn]

Related question, hopefully easy for the more experienced hands... How do you trace the path of a drain ? I have one running from a storm water gully in the road under my field, and I can't tell where it ends ! I had it surveyed and it runs straight for 60m which was as the full run of the CCTV cable. I can make a rough guess where it has reached after about 60m. I guess I can dig a narrow slit trench by hand at a right angle to where I think it runs, and eventually I will find it, but is there a better way ?

I put a ferret finder on the end of drain rods, that works well, there are systems out there that you can hire.

 

[teslacoils]

A map with contours on is s good start. Old drainage plans often mark stuff in the same field. Old man with two bent metal rods?

 

[Highland Mule]

Related question, hopefully easy for the more experienced hands... How do you trace the path of a drain ? I have one running from a storm water gully in the road under my field, and I can't tell where it ends ! I had it surveyed and it runs straight for 60m which was as the full run of the CCTV cable. I can make a rough guess where it has reached after about 60m. I guess I can dig a narrow slit trench by hand at a right angle to where I think it runs, and eventually I will find it, but is there a better way ?

There are substances you can put down the pipe to give a bit of colour at the outlet, which could help if you have a range of possibles. Don’t be tempted to use paint or the likes, go to a builders merchant and ask there.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Food colouring used for baking is as good as anything, mix it in water in a bucket, then tip it down the pipe, spot where it comes out

 

[Dry Rot]

Food colouring used for baking is as good as anything, mix it in water in a bucket, then tip it down the pipe, spot where it comes out

That's what I was thinking, but couldn't remember what the stuff is called. Potassium Permanganate? Or was it Gentian Violet?

 

[Highland Mule]

That's what I was thinking, but couldn't remember what the stuff is called. Potassium Permanganate? Or was it Gentian Violet?

Fluorescein was the one I had heard of.

Drain Tracing Dye

For tracing drain pipe location or flow direction. Fluorescent green when added to water. View with UV light when the dye is not visible to the naked eye.

www.toolstation.com

 

[LAF]

Great, thank you - and reminds me an old boy once said he pours old milk down them to find the exit. The dowsing approach wont work unless the drain has water running in it I imagine... would love to see that with my own eyes though. The whole situation is baffling me, as the road gets a lot of water and I see it going down into the gully all day after a storm, but the other end of pipe is not visible. The field is clay and quite boggy at the lowest point, so (following the contours) I have assumed the pipe is old and broken and my field is the highway authority's soakaway. I was astonished today when the cctv showed the 9" pipe clean, straight and unobstructed with no silt in it all the way along to the 60m mark. So all that water and road silt is going somewhere !
I will try the milk/food colouring/flourecein approach, thanks for the advice chaps.

 

[teslacoils]

I doubt it goes nowhere. We had one of a similar size. Old field drainage map showed the route, and outfall was found. Doubt either end has been cleared out in 20 years, and once it had been it made a big difference. If you've seen it goes straight for 60m, have you followed it in the same direction to see if it reaches a ditch? If the field has land drains, I'd put 5p on them running parallel.

So, additional question, are LL your boundary ditches cleaned out properly?

 

[LAF]

The road gully is about 2m higher than the lowest part of this field and sadly there is no boundary ditch on the road side, its a single lane sunken track but the road surface is all higher than the field, the whole site slopes. The 60m of highways pipe takes it to about 10m short of the lowest part of the field. The pipe is longer than 60m of course, but the natural place for it to end has already been dug up to try to find the end, and its 'not there' (yet). I didn't know the cctv guy had a 60m limit unfortunately. The land is then flat for about 50m before it starts dropping again, and in the next field there is a brick header for a drain inspection chamber (but no pipes running in or out !) and an open gully continues in the same direction. It all makes sense when you see it how the water is being conducted. But its happening without piping, water running along the clay soil. It's poor land but I've only got sheep on it. My grand plan is to find the end of the highway pipe, build a silt trap there, and lay new 9" pipe along the path the water will flow anyway at an angle of about 150 degrees to the highway pipe, watch it working for a year and then bury the pipe. I'm kidding myself that my boggy clay will become usable grazing.

 

[Highland Mule]

For the sake of a few quid, don’t use milk - it’s got potential to be a nasty pollutant as it robs the oxygen from the water and kills fish etc.

 

[LAF]

Highway drain all sorted out now, we found the end and installed a 1400mm concrete ring there and ran 70m of 225m pipe to another new ring and from there a short run to natural gully running away to woodland/bog. However in the fun we came across a an old 4" metal water main. It runs dead straight over 100m across our land, one end heads into a lane and the other into our neighbour's yard. Neighbour lives in the converted farm barn. Seems likely to me that it was the old farm supply.
It does not show up on the water company's map. The neighbour says its not their supply.
Is there any way of finding out if its live/ at pressure ? We want to make an access to the new barn which will lower the soil depth over it at one point to more or less zero.

 

[Nearly]

Can you put a listening stick onto the metal water main?
Does a moving pipe of water make a noise?

 

[Pan mixer]

Highway drain all sorted out now, we found the end and installed a 1400mm concrete ring there and ran 70m of 225m pipe to another new ring and from there a short run to natural gully running away to woodland/bog. However in the fun we came across a an old 4" metal water main. It runs dead straight over 100m across our land, one end heads into a lane and the other into our neighbour's yard. Neighbour lives in the converted farm barn. Seems likely to me that it was the old farm supply.
It does not show up on the water company's map. The neighbour says its not their supply.
Is there any way of finding out if its live/ at pressure ? We want to make an access to the new barn which will lower the soil depth over it at one point to more or less zero.

drill a hole in it with something like this. It will seal after.

Easydrive Flange Self-Drilling Screws 5.5mm x 25mm 100 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. BZP. For fixing corrugated sheet metal to steel constructions. Excellent quality for general exterior construction. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

 

[LAF]

quickly looking up 'Listening stick'

I will ask the ground worker to use one of those. But I guess if the pipe is full and the water is not moving then it wont detect that there is pressure there.

 

[Pan mixer]

quickly looking up 'Listening stick'

I will ask the ground worker to use one of those. But I guess if the pipe is full and the water is not moving then it wont detect that there is pressure there.

A 4 inch main is a major supply to a village etc normally, not just a farm, there should be some water moving if so.

 

[LAF]

drill a hole in it with something like this. It will seal after.

Easydrive Flange Self-Drilling Screws 5.5mm x 25mm 100 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. BZP. For fixing corrugated sheet metal to steel constructions. Excellent quality for general exterior construction. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

I havent come across those before, thanks - do you fit a drill onto the screw and it goes through the metal and self taps, so you can then partially unscrew it carefully to see if water starts seeping out ?

 

[Exfarmer]

Highway drain all sorted out now, we found the end and installed a 1400mm concrete ring there and ran 70m of 225m pipe to another new ring and from there a short run to natural gully running away to woodland/bog. However in the fun we came across a an old 4" metal water main. It runs dead straight over 100m across our land, one end heads into a lane and the other into our neighbour's yard. Neighbour lives in the converted farm barn. Seems likely to me that it was the old farm supply.
It does not show up on the water company's map. The neighbour says its not their supply.
Is there any way of finding out if its live/ at pressure ? We want to make an access to the new barn which will lower the soil depth over it at one point to more or less zero.

That may be an old feed from a spring supply. We had an old cast metal drain about 3-4" diameter laid possibly late Victorian times from 2 wells up a field up to 3/4 mile away from the farm. could be a very useful source of water if tapped and may be a B nuisance if you break it unintentionally. Ours used to feed up to 300 head of cattle and a the dairy for wash down

 

[Pan mixer]

I havent come across those before, thanks - do you fit a drill onto the screw and it goes through the metal and self taps, so you can then partially unscrew it carefully to see if water starts seeping out ?

Yes, there is a thing that goes into the drill with a magnet that will hold them properly or you can use a big set screw with an Allen head that fits, 9mm usually I think.

If the pipe is really thick it helps if you drill a pilot hole a bit smaller than the drill bit on the end of the screw or you will risk breaking the screw.

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Be sure it’s not electric before you go drilling!

This reminds me of a big water pipe that crosses ours. Neighbour wanted a water supply so Thames Water came out and dig up our bit and the hedge out (without asking )

After a bit of a sh1t storm things were agreed, they dig the supply pipe under the road, went to tap it in and...no water

Turns out a new pipe had been installed 100m away and their maps were out of date

 

[steveR]

Be sure it’s not electric before you go drilling!

This reminds me of a big water pipe that crosses ours. Neighbour wanted a water supply so Thames Water came out and dig up our bit and the hedge out (without asking )

After a bit of a sh1t storm things were agreed, they dig the supply pipe under the road, went to tap it in and...no water

Turns out a new pipe had been installed 100m away and their maps were out of date

Sounds like Severn Trent and their mapping techniques. Denied that there was a pressurised sewer across some farmland and then got arsey when it got hit by a digger!!* Thing was, it's not that old, back in the mid 80s I believe.




* Not me, I hasten to add.