Who's bottled it ?

[Bossfarmer]

It's a business decision isn't it. If it works for you on your farm, then crack on, what's not to like.

Less fuel, less hours sat on a tractor, potentially better soil, more drilling capacity to expand your business, etc.

Obviously have to be able to manage grass weeds, possibly with more attention to detail to achieve that.


Good post. Very measured approach.

We ploughed all our winter cereal ground this last autumn with reasonable success, although I'd put a lot of that down to following legume fallow. Also big differences based on the tendancy of individual fields or part fields to have historically wet spots. So also very land/field specific.

One field of very heavy land we just simply couldn't get near it, so if the whole farm had been that soil type then nothing would have got drilled. It wouldn't have mattered if we used plough, min-till or DD. No system would have worked in there. Still sat wet and left fallow.

Some light fields could maybe have been successfully DD'd, but then plough and combi system keeps going with reasonable chance of success as soil gets wetter into late autumn.

If we'd ploughed and then immediately combi drilled it would have been waterlogged. Needs to be ploughed and left to dry a day or two in conditions like we had last autumn, then chance it will stay dry over winter. Some light sand could be ploughed and combi drilled straight behind. For us, all depends on soil type and waterlogging history/knowledge of the field.

Other farms/land might be able to successfully DD the whole farm, even in autumn 23.

This sort of leads me to think that soil/farm type has a massive baring on chance of DD working successfully.aybe why we get some on here saying DD is best thing since sliced bread and others saying it doesn't work. It's probably not right for anyone to proclaim it does/doesn't work.... I think it's farm/land specific.

Those are my thoughts so far, but willing to be convinced otherwise! I watch and read about DD with interest.

im curious how does dd work on a mixed farm? do you spray off the grass ley and just dd straight into it?

 

[Bossfarmer]

Ploughing will reduce organic carbon through aerobic respiration. So that kind of undoes some of the benefits of large volumes of muck.

seems to yield well, i should point out every field gets a 5 year rest in temp grass in the rotation......as they should

 

[Adeptandy]

@whindy I tried to get it back to your original and what I thought was going to be an interesting thread. As someone who’s in the 4th year of conversion to DD has had similar thoughts dealing with this cropping years weather, but I’m afraid that was to much to hope

 

[Martin Holden]

I think you have to go with what you believe is right on the day.
Clinging desperately to one system is the road to disaster IMHO.
I know people who have been no till for many years who have recently cultivated.

You’re right. With our unreliable climate you need a couple of solutions at your disposal and sometimes turning it over and or using a tine to break through, level and get air into soils to dry them out is necessary. This spring has been triple K time!

 

[Drillman]

I took a bit of what is classed as heavy land on last backend. Ex winter barley desperately in need of a break crop

by time I was able to get into it it was October and it was wet. I managed to pull a subsoiler thru a few acres and the rest was left to green up with whatever weed seeds there was on it.

now at the end of April I’ve finally managed to roundup the lot and the only lump that travels anything like 9s what was subsoiled, the rest needs dry weather for a bit longer before we can do anything with it.
we have a direct drill in the pipeline but any thought of trying to do that into this land would be a disaster without some serious remedial cultivation work as it’s panned to hell.

 

[Two Tone]

It was the farmers whispering in Janet's ear that ploughing was for lunatics who politicized it.

Not sure that is true. There were other
farmers like Andrew Ward who told her it doesn’t work.
The reality is that it is a solution to reducing farming’s Carbon Footprint that the Government has pounced upon as part of its legal commitment to get to allegedly becoming Carbon Neutral.
Hence the massive (80%?) grants available to buy new DD drills.
IMO it’s all bollox!

 

[Two Tone]

You’re right. With our unreliable climate you need a couple of solutions at your disposal and sometimes turning it over and or using a tine to break through, level and get air into soils to dry them out is necessary. This spring has been triple K time!

By the time it was dry enough to use a triple K here on heavy land they would have been smashed to pieces!
The answer was a Horsch CO3 with 50 mm Metcalfe tines.
il effect a Pigtail cultivator with a seed box on top.

 

[Adeptandy]

Not sure that is true. There were other
farmers like Andrew Ward who told her it doesn’t work.
The reality is that it is a solution to reducing farming’s Carbon Footprint that the Government has pounced upon as part of its legal commitment to get to allegedly becoming Carbon Neutral.
Hence the massive (80%?) grants available to buy new DD drills.
IMO it’s all bollox!

50% by the looks of it if your after a 6m

 

[Two Tone]

50% by the looks of it if your after a 6m

Thanks. The other day at a Warwickshire Rural Hub meeting, Simon Weaving quoted a payment of £10k on a £50k drill. Can’t remember what size that was though.

Make you wonder if you were a conventional driller, why not buy a DD drill on the Grant and use it conveniently?

We are going to see some Almighty cock-ups of farmers tempted into DD because of those grants and it’ll Go wrong for most of them because they have no idea how to do it properly!

 

[ollie989898]

I took a bit of what is classed as heavy land on last backend. Ex winter barley desperately in need of a break crop

by time I was able to get into it it was October and it was wet. I managed to pull a subsoiler thru a few acres and the rest was left to green up with whatever weed seeds there was on it.

now at the end of April I’ve finally managed to roundup the lot and the only lump that travels anything like 9s what was subsoiled, the rest needs dry weather for a bit longer before we can do anything with it.
we have a direct drill in the pipeline but any thought of trying to do that into this land would be a disaster without some serious remedial cultivation work as it’s panned to hell.

In that circumstance where land has been farmed hard for a long time you are literally starting from scratch and I wouldn't be direct drilling in that situation even in a kind year I think?

Maybe in a few years once you have managed to get the soil structure on the way to something helpful and it's all properly subsoiled to remove any grief it has been given in prior years.

 

[Adeptandy]

Not sure that is true. There were other
farmers like Andrew Ward who told her it doesn’t work.

I’m guessing as that doesn’t fit the narrative that point will be ignored like a few others

 

[Adeptandy]

Thanks. The other day at a Warwickshire Rural Hub meeting, Simon Weaving quoted a payment of £10k on a £50k drill. Can’t remember what size that was though.

Make you wonder if you were a conventional driller, why not buy a DD drill on the Grant and use it conveniently?

We are going to see some Almighty cock-ups of farmers tempted into DD because of those grants and it’ll Go wrong for most of them because they have no idea how to do it properly!

I’m only going by what Simon told me. Grant just shy of £30k on a £63k front tank 6m sabre.
Was planning a home build, but it’s as cost effective to buy a new one

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Not sure that is true. There were other
farmers like Andrew Ward who told her it doesn’t work.
The reality is that it is a solution to reducing farming’s Carbon Footprint that the Government has pounced upon as part of its legal commitment to get to allegedly becoming Carbon Neutral.
Hence the massive (80%?) grants available to buy new DD drills.
IMO it’s all bollox!

Except you have a direct drill?

 

[Cowcorn]

Agree with most of that but I don’t understand the reasoning saying you are only a couple hundred acres but using the fact you have a man to pay and son to keep busy as justification

Simple really , Norman has been here since my fathers time and i have no intention of retiring him also i need help with the cows .
Son has recently joined us too so labour is there to plough and combi .
I suppose it depends on what you value ..
Id rather pay wages than tax or finance on a new dd drill .
Anyway we would only end up fighting over who used it ...

 

[Two Tone]

Except you have a direct drill?

Yes I do.
The bollox is the idea of encouraging people to go DD for so-called Zero Carbon reasons, which in itself will be impossible and never happen with us, let alone the rest of the world that doesn’t give a stuff about it.

My reason for going DD is entirely economic for the situation on this farm. Irrespective of any grants or SFI payments.

 

[Adeptandy]

Yes I do.
The bollox is the idea of encouraging people to go DD for so-called Zero Carbon reasons, which in itself will be impossible and never happen with us, let alone the rest of the world that doesn’t give a stuff about it.

My reason for going DD is entirely economic for the situation on this farm. Irrespective of any grants of SFI payments.

I agree, but I’m not going to be stupid enough to refuse the payment if it’s available

 

[Drillman]

Make you wonder if you were a conventional driller, why not buy a DD drill on the Grant and use it conveniently?

that’s what I’m aiming on doing. But unlike the current combi it also gives me a min till drill and if the opportunity arises a direct drill. And as someone else is paying for 1/2 of it it seems sensible to buy a new one with all the boxes ticked.

Combi can stay as it the only power Harrow we got which may be useful and the drill part is worthless.

 

[Two Tone]

Simple really , Norman has been here since my fathers time and i have no intention of retiring him also i need help with the cows .
Son has recently joined us too so labour is there to plough and combi .
I suppose it depends on what you value ..
Id rather pay wages than tax or finance on a new dd drill .
Anyway we would only end up fighting over who used it ...

In your situation, I’d do exactly the same. Well done.

 

[Two Tone]

I’m only going by what Simon told me. Grant just shy of £30k on a £63k front tank 6m sabre.
Was planning a home build, but it’s as cost effective to buy a new one

IIRC, he was talking about a 3 metre grain and ferts version.
Freely admitting that nobody is ever likely to use the fert section for ferts, but the way the grants work, you might as well have it virtually for free!

Just about the very last thing I’d ever want to do is put grain and ferts down the same spout/coulter of any drill, but especially so any Direct drill.
It is absolutely crazy thing to do FFS!

 

[Adeptandy]

IIRC, he was talking about a 3 metre grain and ferts version.
Freely admitting that nobody is ever likely to use the fert section for ferts, but the way the grants work, you might as well have it virtually for free!

Just about the very last thing I’d ever want to do is put grain and ferts down the same spout/coulter of any drill, but especially so any Direct drill.
It is absolutely crazy thing to do FFS!

Tried it on the GD for OSR with DAP in the main tank and OSR in the rotometer, really gave the metering unit a kicking, haven’t done it since. Have liquid tanks on the FD and would do granular again