Why Are Young People Not Learning Trades/Skills?

[Ffermer Bach]

Hmm, that's a bit elitist, snobby even some might call it, surprised at you...

just an observation, and the fact that they then had very high student debt, I would always advise, do a trade, then maybe a higher qualification at Coleg Sir Gar for a year or two, then a degree either part time or full time, where the degree is relevant.

 

[Danllan]

Prior to the expansion of the Universities a typical working class student wouldn’t have thought about going to University they’d either leave school at 16 or maybe hang on til 18 but not go to University. 120 kids started at Grammar school with me all bright enough to pass the 11. At 16 80 left either for jobs or maybe so form of college/vocational course. At 18 only 25 went onto University. Twenty percent of those that started. I’d hazard a guess that in the Comprehensives etc it would have been a lot less than 20 percent probably closer to 5%. Public schools would have had a much higher percentage rate. Going to University in the 70’s and ‘80’s wasn’t because we were the elite it was because it was expected of us. The Cowmans son or the Postman’s daughter wouldn’t have thought about it no matter how intelligent they were. A lot of very intelligent people would have slipped through the net obviously they’d have made excellent tradesmen but don’t believe that the people achieving degrees in times previously were some form of cream of intelligentsia they were just the ones who believed they could go to University. My school would be able to put one kid into Oxbridge every other year now they are able to put seven in most years. My children’s level one public school has failed to put anyone into Oxbridge for a couple of years probably because there’s a lot more kids to choose from when up until the 2000’s they’d regularly put a dozen in. A University education never really has been a measure of much there has always been a place at one for anyone who wanted to go to one. Two from our school went to the University of Salford and both ended up as CEOs of Asda. From memory I reckon one did Engineering which has no relevance to retail. Nope I’m of the opinion anyone who wants should have the opportunity to go to a University.

The emboldened part is the only thing readable in that... and I agree with it. Of course they should, my contention is not that anyone should be prevented from going to university, but that only those who will benefit the nation should be subsidised by the nation... and you find that unreasonable, really...?

Any wanting to go and waste their time on irrelevant 'degrees' in pretend subjects are welcome to do so, as now, at their own expense. My proposal would not change that one iota, there must be freedom of choice even for such rubbish and such foolishness.

What my idea would do is encourage the brightest in aspirations toward the subject areas mentioned, and relieve them, regardless of background, of the enormous burden concomitant with what you have - in a quite remarkable bit of euphemism - describes as 'the expansion of the universities'.

I'll admit to having no understanding as to why anyone could think this a negative thing.

 

[Danllan]

just an observation, and the fact that they then had very high student debt, I would always advise, do a trade, then maybe a higher qualification at Coleg Sir Gar for a year or two, then a degree either part time or full time, where the degree is relevant.

Hmm... still strikes me as bit uppish that you're chasing people with degrees for manual work, what's wrong with those who only have A-Levels? I'll bet you jump on any passing by with a PhD and leave the average postgrad's to go hungry, shocking.. Elitism at its very worst...

 

[HatsOff]

... only those who will benefit the nation should be subsidised by the nation...

The counter argument (and where we are with national policy), is why should the taxpayer subsidise people who are going to earn a lot more money?

 

[Danllan]

The counter argument (and where we are with national policy), is why should the taxpayer subsidise people who are going to earn a lot more money?

Because we need them to qualify in it to be able to earn it and to do it soon.

 

[Lowland1]

The emboldened part is the only thing readable in that... and I agree with it. Of course they should, my contention is not that anyone should be prevented from going to university, but that only those who will benefit the nation should be subsidised by the nation... and you find that unreasonable, really...?

Any wanting to go and waste their time on irrelevant 'degrees' in pretend subjects are welcome to do so, as now, at their own expense. My proposal would not change that one iota, there must be freedom of choice even for such rubbish and such foolishness.

What my idea would do is encourage the brightest in aspirations toward the subject areas mentioned, and relieve them, regardless of background, of the enormous burden concomitant with what you have - in a quite remarkable bit of euphemism - describes as 'the expansion of the universities'.

I'll admit to having no understanding as to why anyone could think this a negative thing.

Really? I bet you didn't go to University from school.

 

[czechmate]

Did you work down the pit ?

No but grandpa worked in Woolly

 

[Swarfmonkey]

I haven't mentioned secondary education swarf. Kids choose between apprenticeship, uni or 'work'. University is highly rated by parents and by international comparisons whereas parents DON'T rate trades (often as in my case because they have gone that route and regretted it).

That's because far too many parents bought into the bulls**t fed to them by schools and government itself, not to mention a fair degree (pun not intended) of snobbishness towards vocational training.

By the time my kid has finished 4 years ( and probably a masters ) it will have cost all of us probably 80k. Worth it? 100%, too many doors closed to non graduates.

That's a direct result of the massive oversupply of graduates in general. Where once employers would ask for A levels for entry level jobs they're now asking for a degree instead.

for my kids uni is absolutely the best chance they have for success.

That's very much down to the subject, their attainment, and the institution itself. As I noted earlier there's a massive oversupply of graduates in general, so they're going to be facing a whole lotta competition.

Anyway you think our unis are dear. Try what my relations in the states pay.

Oh yeah, absolutely crazy expensive in the US.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Hmm... still strikes me as bit uppish that you're chasing people with degrees for manual work, what's wrong with those who only have A-Levels? I'll bet you jump on any passing by with a PhD and leave the average postgrad's to go hungry, shocking.. Elitism at its very worst...

I wasn't chasing anyone, they came to me looking for training. I think I only ever had one apprentice with an Msc (international politics or something like that). He also had highers in English and Maths (the Scottish equivalent of A Levels), and the Welsh Assembly still made him do essential skills at level 1 & 2 in numeracy and english language!

 

[Lincsman]

Plenty it would be a lot more mechanised. Our neighbours were Nottinghamshire miners they reckoned they got more dust harvesting or planting potatoes down the fen than they ever got down t’ pit.

I remember pre strike the old boys saying they wouldnt let their kids go down T pit, when they lost the option they didnt like it.

 

[Lowland1]

I remember pre strike the old boys saying they wouldnt let their kids go down T pit, when they lost the option they didnt like it.

Everyone wants better for their kids but the also don’t want to lose the fall back option.

 

[JimAndy]

The emboldened part is the only thing readable in that... and I agree with it. Of course they should, my contention is not that anyone should be prevented from going to university, but that only those who will benefit the nation should be subsidised by the nation... and you find that unreasonable, really...?

Any wanting to go and waste their time on irrelevant 'degrees' in pretend subjects are welcome to do so, as now, at their own expense. My proposal would not change that one iota, there must be freedom of choice even for such rubbish and such foolishness.

What my idea would do is encourage the brightest in aspirations toward the subject areas mentioned, and relieve them, regardless of background, of the enormous burden concomitant with what you have - in a quite remarkable bit of euphemism - describes as 'the expansion of the universities'.

I'll admit to having no understanding as to why anyone could think this a negative thing.

who decides what a " irrelevant 'degrees' in pretend subjects" is ?

 

[Danllan]

Really? I bet you didn't go to University from school.

No, I started my first degree at 26, after the Army - what has that to do with what I propose?

 

[Danllan]

I wasn't chasing anyone, they came to me looking for training. I think I only ever had one apprentice with an Msc (international politics or something like that). He also had highers in English and Maths (the Scottish equivalent of A Levels), and the Welsh Assembly still made him do essential skills at level 1 & 2 in numeracy and english language!

I've just been teasing, I'm sure you take people without qual's too.

 

[Lowland1]

No, I started my first degree at 26, after the Army - what has that to do with what I propose?

I thought as much. I reckon you missed out on something there.

 

[Danllan]

who decides what a " irrelevant 'degrees' in pretend subjects" is ?

Go and ask the first 20 people you meet on any highstreet or in a pub and they'll tell you. But you know already, and are just asking a wannabe fashionable question...

But since you are unlikely to admit as much or have the balls to go and ask a random group of taxpayers... irrelevant degrees can be a large proportion from a uni' with an awful reputation, e.g. University of West London, or those that mean nothing outside of the 'academic' department that creates them, such as: Ethnic And Minority Studies; Puppetry Design and Performance; Politics, Sexuality and Gender; Queer Studies; Transnational Queer Feminist Politics etc. etc. etc.

But you already know all this...

 

[Danllan]

I thought as much. I reckon you missed out on something there.

What is the point, I have asked and you won't answer?

Anyway, as it happens I DID go to uni' straight from secondary education, I started at Med' School but dropped out after only a few weeks... to join the Army - condemn that if you will...

 

[Lowland1]

What is the point, I have asked and you won't answer?

Anyway, as it happens I DID go to uni' straight from secondary education, I started at Med' School but dropped out after only a few weeks... to join the Army - condemn that if you will...

There you go you missed a lot of the reason kids want to go to University. They get to live away from home for three years , they are away from school and the discipline that goes with it. The degree they get is really secondary to all of that.

 

[Daddy Pig]

Other is stuff like insurance.
I had schools asking if kids can do work experience. Buy they would not pay insurance if anything went wrong.

Plus they said kids could not go near machines or livestock apart from chickens...

My son starts work experience this sept (year 11) 1 day a week at a local dairy farm, he's covered by the farms standard insurance and school is happy for him to help milking and work with machines, he does help milking and sheep/calves at school now as its based at local Agricultural College

 

[Xerion]

What's wrong with working down the pit?
5 generation coal miner here and still at it 6 shifts a week

The very last thing modern school lever would do is go down a pit.. if they were still open I am not sure who would be working there.

@Lincsman in answer to you question
My lad works down the pit with me making him the 6 generation underground, did a full apprenticeship came out with full marks and his fachbrief earns good money and loves it
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