Why Are Young People Not Learning Trades/Skills?

[Anymulewilldo]

Our kid's high school has a brilliant setup of workshops and nobody employed to teach or do anything with machining ,welding, soldering etc. When my lad wanted to make stuff for his GCSE and A level DT we did at home with loads of photos and videos to show that it was actually him making it. Bit of an issue,I had to teach myself how to weld aluminium,then try and teach him which caused a few arguments

When I was in high school (02-09) there was a full set up of woodwork, metalwork, CAD, heat treatment & home economics rooms. Even then there were rooms full of lathes that we weren’t allowed to use. Our teacher just apologised and told us “those above say it’s not safe to teach you how to use these anymore” we did enamel work and all sorts in the heat treatment room. By the time I was in final year all the old teachers had been replaced and apart from the belt sander all the big equipment was deemed as unnecessary.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Same here, you learned metal work and wood work. Now it's Design and Technology,the actual making of the thing doesn't get that many marks

My DT A-level was painful. You spent thst long pratting about doing paperwork you had hardly anytime to actually complete your project. And as you say, it was possible to pass the course on coursework alone, no project piece actually needed.

 

[Pistonbroke]

Certain skills, can be so useful for were ever you end up in the world, or a "can do attitude" helps, mechanic/ welder, building trades, presentable bar/ cafe/resturant work experience, all in demand any where in the world, all gained in the "university" of hard knocks

I was talking to a farmer from near Aberdeen a few years ago and he said most of the capable farm lads were working on the rigs because they were all practical and could turn their hand to anything. No farm could touch the wages they were getting and there was a shortage of farm labour

 

[Pistonbroke]

My DT A-level was painful. You spent thst long pratting about doing paperwork you had hardly anytime to actually complete your project. And as you say, it was possible to pass the course on coursework alone, no project piece actually needed.

My lad did a quad box for GCSE,a custom lambing quad trailer for first year of A level and a turnover/ treatment / tailing crate for the last. He was adamant that it was going to be made as good as possible and spent so much time doing them I thought the other subjects were going to slip. Ended up fine and we've got three things that will always be kept and used

 

[Ffermer Bach]

The Office for Students holds data on post-graduation outcomes by subject. Those with degrees in creative arts & related subjects, mass communication (which would cover media studies and the like), and social studies (psych, sociology etc) have the worst earnings and are least likely to be in graduate level employment. Those are the areas where you'll find those Mickey Mouse degrees. The highest for both earnings and likelihood of being in a grad level job (none of which will come as a surprise) are Comp Sci, Engineering, Mathematical Sciences, Vet Med, Economics, and Medicine.

If you met someone with a degree in media studies that earns 100k a year, you met one hell of a statistical outlier...

They also have more than a few reports that show how degrees have been dumbed down. In 2010/2011 just 15.5% of students were awarded a First, by 2021/2022 that had risen to 32.8%.

My partner said since student fees increased to £9000 plus, grades started to go up, now a quarter of all students (sorry customers) get a first.

She also said, a few years ago, students started sending her emails, or essays with poor punctuation, spelling, colloquial language or written in the wrong register. She told them, if you send your employer emails like this, they will think you are either uneducated, stupid or lazy. Her director of learning had complaints saying professor ffermer bach is saying we are stupid. At that point she decided to stop trying to improve the students quality of written work, as it only led to her getting a grilling from management. She decided to stop trying to tell a few home truths to help improve their future prospects.

 

[ollie989898]

My partner said since student fees increased to £9000 plus, grades started to go up, now a quarter of all students (sorry customers) get a first.

She also said, a few years ago, students started sending her emails, or essays with poor punctuation, spelling, colloquial language or written in the wrong register. She told them, if you send your employer emails like this, they will think you are either uneducated, stupid or lazy. Her director of learning had complaints saying professor ffermer bach is saying we are stupid. At that point she decided to stop trying to improve the students quality of written work, as it only led to her getting a grilling from management. She decided to stop trying to tell a few home truths to help improve their future prospects.

Poor spelling and punctuation is a feature of modern life, I see it everywhere.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

After my former career came to a juddering halt I went back to college for the Access to HE course to get my head back into studying before applying to university. The Access to HE course is pitched as being Level 3, the same as the A Levels i'd completed over a decade and a half before. Access was easy, the standard (particularly on the Chem module) being GCSE level at best. Well, GCSE level when I first took mine. Christ knows how bad they are now

Then I went off to university where I thought it might be better. I was wrong, you only needed 70% to get a First...

Dumbing down only serves the government who can crow "look at our record results this year!". It certainly doesn't serve the kids, or employers.

I had an apprentice who did a civil engineering technician apprenticeship (which included an HNC at West Anglia College in Civils), after his apprenticeship, he went on to do a degree in Civils. I bumped into him on site, and he told me, the standard of the work they did in the FE college in Norfolk was higher than they were doing on their degree!

 

[CPF]

My partner said since student fees increased to £9000 plus, grades started to go up, now a quarter of all students (sorry customers) get a first.

She also said, a few years ago, students started sending her emails, or essays with poor punctuation, spelling, colloquial language or written in the wrong register. She told them, if you send your employer emails like this, they will think you are either uneducated, stupid or lazy. Her director of learning had complaints saying professor ffermer bach is saying we are stupid. At that point she decided to stop trying to improve the students quality of written work, as it only led to her getting a grilling from management. She decided to stop trying to tell a few home truths to help improve their future prospect

My partner said since student fees increased to £9000 plus, grades started to go up, now a quarter of all students (sorry customers) get a first.

She also said, a few years ago, students started sending her emails, or essays with poor punctuation, spelling, colloquial language or written in the wrong register. She told them, if you send your employer emails like this, they will think you are either uneducated, stupid or lazy. Her director of learning had complaints saying professor ffermer bach is saying we are stupid. At that point she decided to stop trying to improve the students quality of written work, as it only led to her getting a grilling from management. She decided to stop trying to tell a few home truths to help improve their future prospects.

That’s what my daughter did, but she walked away from it.

 

[Vader]

Son's uni exams,a pass is 40% and several failing, he's been getting 85 to 93. Makes me wonder how useful some of the graduates will be at the end

How is getting more than 1/2 of questions wrong a pass?
Crazy..

 

[HatsOff]

How is getting more than 1/2 of questions wrong a pass?
Crazy..

It's a pass in the sense you don't get kicked out.

40 - 50 third class
50 - 60 second class lower division (2:2)
60 - 70 second class upper division (2:1)
70+ first class

My engineering degree did have a bit of right vs wrong answers (although 'show your working' definitely applied) but many degrees are a bit more abstract so it can be about how something is argued and quality of expression. Most degrees awarded at second class anyway.

 

[Pistonbroke]

How is getting more than 1/2 of questions wrong a pass?
Crazy..

He reckons the ones that have worked hardest to be able to go there and will need to get a good job at the end do better. The ones that Daddy's paying the bills and it doesn't matter how they do are the ones that are failing

 

[Swarfmonkey]

My partner said since student fees increased to £9000 plus, grades started to go up, now a quarter of all students (sorry customers) get a first.

No surprise there. I bet there's an awful lot of pressure from above to be rather generous when it comes to marking...

She also said, a few years ago, students started sending her emails, or essays with poor punctuation, spelling, colloquial language or written in the wrong register. She told them, if you send your employer emails like this, they will think you are either uneducated, stupid or lazy. Her director of learning had complaints saying professor ffermer bach is saying we are stupid. At that point she decided to stop trying to improve the students quality of written work, as it only led to her getting a grilling from management. She decided to stop trying to tell a few home truths to help improve their future prospects.

The management deserves a massive kick up the arse for that. Letting them get away with such poor SPaG will not serve them well in the long run.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Poor spelling and punctuation is a feature of modern life, I see it everywhere.

When we get placement applications and vet students applying, if the email isn’t written properly I disregard it. it’s awful I know but that sort of thing really annoys me!

 

[ollie989898]

When we get placement applications and vet students applying, if the email isn’t written properly I disregard it. it’s awful I know but that sort of thing really annoys me!

Surely you should write back to the parties/faculties concerned and let them know about this policy?

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Surely you should write back to the parties/faculties concerned and let them know about this policy?

It’s not my job to tell them anything. They know what I’m looking for. When asked I have pointed out why student X was ignored. And it’s nothing to do with academic ability I’ve found. Plenty of “steady” students are capable of writing an easy reading email.
TBH those who ring up get more attention paid to them. Nowadays the art of conversation seems to be dying

 

[kfpben]

When we get placement applications and vet students applying, if the email isn’t written properly I disregard it. it’s awful I know but that sort of thing really annoys me!

The same for those who message me or even worse get their parents to contact me.
Ring me up and Speak!

 

[Paddington]

I used lathes, milling machines, did a bit of basic forgework at school, so when I had to do a few months in an engineering works I thought I would have a basic grounding. It was soul destroying, working alongside first year apprentices several years younger than myself. First a week of filing a bit of metal in a vice, next week you can use a hacksaw ! No seats until break time, your coat was hung up out of reach until lunchtime where you brought your own knife and fork to the dirty end of the canteen, white collar and management had cutlery provided and didn't have to wash up afterwards. Loos were outdoor with the roof removed to stop you skiving. The instructor sat on a high chair at a desk in the corner and woe betide you if you lingered over your filing. Probably hadn't changed since before WW1. Couldn't wait to finish my daily stint and breathe fresh air outside. Hopefully changed now for the better.

 

[ollie989898]

I used lathes, milling machines, did a bit of basic forgework at school, so when I had to do a few months in an engineering works I thought I would have a basic grounding. It was soul destroying, working alongside first year apprentices several years younger than myself. First a week of filing a bit of metal in a vice, next week you can use a hacksaw ! No seats until break time, your coat was hung up out of reach until lunchtime where you brought your own knife and fork to the dirty end of the canteen, white collar and management had cutlery provided and didn't have to wash up afterwards. Loos were outdoor with the roof removed to stop you skiving. The instructor sat on a high chair at a desk in the corner and woe betide you if you lingered over your filing. Probably hadn't changed since before WW1. Couldn't wait to finish my daily stint and breathe fresh air outside. Hopefully changed now for the better.

WTF is this soviet era style of bullship? What kind of employer or manager allows this? FFS.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

I used lathes, milling machines, did a bit of basic forgework at school, so when I had to do a few months in an engineering works I thought I would have a basic grounding. It was soul destroying, working alongside first year apprentices several years younger than myself. First a week of filing a bit of metal in a vice, next week you can use a hacksaw!

You skipped the basics at school, whereas the apprentices didn't. Still, you got off easy. You weren't made to produce an almost perfectly flat reference surface using the 3 plate method, now that's a punishment duty.

You'd be surprised how many bodge jobs I end up sorting out in my side gig because of the number of people who don't even know how to use basic tools such as files and hacksaws properly.

 

[Wood field]

You skipped the basics at school, whereas the apprentices didn't. Still, you got off easy. You weren't made to produce an almost perfectly flat reference surface using the 3 plate method, now that's a punishment duty.

You'd be surprised how many bodge jobs I end up sorting out in my side gig because of the number of people who don't even know how to use basic tools such as files and hacksaws properly.

Our first year was in the training school, lump of crusty steel each , made two grabs, toolmakers clamps , hacksaw etc , on surface plates and light boxes… then it had to pass the instructor
At the time it was like boot camp , but it teaches not only the basics but discipline