Why Do Councils Go Bust?

[Dave6170]

First prize must go to Highland Council who paid £880,000 last year to people who are no longer on their payroll. Incompetence doesn't even begin to touch it.

Is it £60 million they’re trying to save today?!

 

[Dave6170]

Well it's certainly not with the amount they are spending on road maintenance in my area

Same here. Better roads in Baghdad!

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Until there is some sort of personal responsibility placed on these council [or any public] officials nothing will change. I read about Performance Bonuses... but never about under performance penalties.

Nowt will change until there's effective punishment for incompetence and wastefulness - and that goes for the whole of the public sector.

 

[roscoe erf]

Wages they pay themselves need capping

 

[som farmer]

Wouldnt it be better, for the whole of the UK to go bankrupt, get rid of all our debts institutions , govt , council etc and start a fresh? If only it was that easy?

l would think mass bankruptcy of all the poor sods really struggling to get by, would be the best solution, otherwise its just going to be a nightmare for many.

it would sort the housing market out, both sales/rentals, would soon lower both prices, and rents, and housing is just to expensive for many, as is energy.

would effect the holiday trade, more would come to the UK, because it would be cheap, and more would stay in the UK to holiday, rather than abroad, £ exchange low, so more money would stay here.

a lot of people would be happier, by just removing the debt threat. Productivity would rise, as with a weak pound, our exports would grow.

it would bugger the banking industry, l haven't got a problem with that, their cheap credit is partly to blame.

best of all though, imported food would be dearer, families would be better off, which is all good news for farmers.

here ends a report by an old cynical git.

 

[betweenthelines]

There's lots of stuff that Councils have a Legal obligation to do. When they can no longer afford to do it "in-house" they often end up paying a ridiculous amount for the private sector to do it.

For example a lot of childrens homes have closed down meaning this provision has to be outsourced, often to specialist Companies. It's the same with emergency housing provision-no spare council stock so have to go to the private sector.

Use of Agency staff is another issue-no one wants to work for Social Services in certain areas so the only way to get staff in is through the Agency route

 

[Ffermer Bach]

There's lots of stuff that Councils have a Legal obligation to do. When they can no longer afford to do it "in-house" they often end up paying a ridiculous amount for the private sector to do it.

For example a lot of childrens homes have closed down meaning this provision has to be outsourced, often to specialist Companies. It's the same with emergency housing provision-no spare council stock so have to go to the private sector.

Use of Agency staff is another issue-no one wants to work for Social Services in certain areas so the only way to get staff in is through the Agency route

ex tennant used to work for an agency managing a gypsy site, as no council employees wanted to manage it.

 

[getting on]

they don't half do some idiotic things, but social care is massive. And several care homes locally, have closed, because they don't meet the ever increasing standards, one local, doors were to narrow by 1inch l lovely place as well.

the more that close, the greater the competition, so they can jack up prices.

NHS, Social care, pensions, all need a massive re-organisation, which is politically impossible, they are becoming an over onerous burden, on society.

and councils love to develop beautiful projects, way over the top, and often fail to meet expectations. Nice to see, but functional is much cheaper.

Don't forget County and District councillors can claim all sorts of benefits when on so called council business plus have payments matched by the council into private pensions.

 

[som farmer]

Don't forget County and District councillors can claim all sorts of benefits when on so called council business plus have payments matched by the council into private pensions.

l think its called 'the gravy train'.

 

[Bongodog]

From what I understand from speaking to councillors they are not allowed to make a profit. Any excess goes back to the government at the end of the year. So they're forced to borrow money to pay for anything over budget and then that just builds up and up over time.
Plus the fact that the council tax has been frozen for several years in Scotland further reducing the budget but to mention the values of the tax bands haven't been updated for like 30 years now.... Lots of big houses paying pee all in council tax...

I was involved in local govt for over 20 years, I can certainly say that no local authority money is ever clawed back in the way you describe.

You would be hard pressed to find a council budget holding officer who ever underspends, any surplus is definitely cleared out before the end of the year. At a former employer we were used to getting calls in February from councils with money to spare, often we couldn't supply until April or May but the invoice had to be in by March 31st

The only direct control govt has over councils is setting a maximum percentage they can increase council tax each year.

Don't forget County and District councillors can claim all sorts of benefits when on so called council business plus have payments matched by the council into private pensions.

Councillors get an allowance not a wage there is no pension payment as they are not employed by the council. Anyone of any use will be severely out of pocket being a district or county cllr. A friend was leader of our District council about 10 years ago. It cost him more in wages to staff to cover his absence from his business than he got in allowances from the council.

 

[Interested in farming]

Local authority revenue expenditure and financing England: 2021 to 2022 final outturn (Revised)

www.gov.uk

Link to table below.

the biggies are Education and Social Care and the jump in 20-21 in over all costs was huge. Councils are heavily impacted by the NMLW as they have so many on minimum wage.

Why do they go bust? One side says mismanagement, others say funding. Odd that they all suddenly became badly managed to fail all at once though.

Don't underestimate the impact of equal pay either.

https://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2020/ir_090620_equal_pay_in_councils.pdf

To those criticising councils, I say the same thing to people who tell me the that famers are wealthy, land owning, animal abusing, environmental vandals - keep an open mind. Headlines don't always tell the full story.

Service Category	2017-18	2018-19	2019-20	2020-21	2021-22
Education [note 2]	32,265	32,233	32,603	33,410	34,839
Highways and transport [note 3]	3,997	3,857	3,757	7,844	5,331
Highways and transport (GLA only)	1,269	1,227	1,003	4,280	2,337
Social care [note 4]	24,164	25,452	26,826	29,209	30,242
of which: Children’s Social Care	8,834	9,375	9,920	10,496	11,270
Public Health	3,365	3,278	3,228	3,792	4,232
Housing (excluding Housing Revenue Account)	1,536	1,673	1,775	2,051	2,179
Cultural, environmental and planning	8,293	8,435	8,757	10,107	10,008
Police	11,165	11,426	12,203	13,083	13,607
Fire & rescue	1,972	2,005	2,158	2,194	2,267
Central services	3,065	3,011	3,251	4,077	4,091
Other Services	-19	48	42	519	255
Total Service Expenditure [Note 2]	89,803	91,417	94,600	106,284	107,051
% Difference Year-on-year	-0.7%	1.8%	3.5%	12.4%	0.7%
Total Service Expenditure excluding Education [note 5]	57,538	59,183	61,997	72,874	72,212
% Difference Year-on-year	0.8%	2.9%	4.8%	17.5%	-0.9%
Total Service Expenditure excluding Education & Public Health	54,173	55,905	58,769	69,082	67,980
% Difference Year-on-year	1.1%	3.2%	5.1%	17.5%	-1.6%
Revenue Expenditure [Note 2]	93,104	94,226	98,178	109,639	111,177
% Difference Year-on-year	-0.5%	1.2%	4.2%	11.7%	1.4%

 

[Lexion1000]

The amount of money that councils have to pay for social care is unbelievable. I’m not arguing against this concept but I think the limits have been totally stretched. For example if you have a disabled child the council will pay for another family member to be their carer as long as they live at a different address. The rates of pay are exceptional and it can be 24hrs a day. You can imagine how that gets milked. You can also get yourself a car if you have a disabled child. Or adapt your house. The numbers of people qualifying for these things is going up quickly as autism and adhd is better diagnosed.

I’m not suggesting that all of that gets milked but I know a lot does. I’m also certainly not suggesting that there shouldn’t be support it’s just that there isn’t a bottomless pit of money to keep shovelling from.

 

[marshbarn]

 

[teslacoils]

The fall into the trap that outsourcing staff that actually did work, and investing in complex IT to manage this work, actually results in less work.

Then they throw piles of money at lawyers to hassle anyone who questions their practices.

A cursory read of Private Eye will do everyone the world of good.

A favorite of mine was an outsourced IT contract meant that fancy new screens didnt get used as they needed a new cable. Cable was about £12 from PC World down the road but they had to go with the official contracted supplier and it worked out around ten times that.

All they seem to do is bicker at each other. My local ones are busy bickering that nothing should ever get built ever, and as such are basically bumming themselves out of a huge pile of lovely business rates. My local town has, since I moved here, redesigned and rebuilt the town square five times. There are no shops there - rates too high and no parking. Procurement at all levels of government in the UK are pee-poor.

 

[BRB John]

I was involved in local govt for over 20 years, I can certainly say that no local authority money is ever clawed back in the way you describe.

You would be hard pressed to find a council budget holding officer who ever underspends, any surplus is definitely cleared out before the end of the year. At a former employer we were used to getting calls in February from councils with money to spare, often we couldn't supply until April or May but the invoice had to be in by March 31st

And why do you think there's a mad dash to spend the surplus at the end of the year? If the surplus isn't taken away then why rush to spend it by 31st of march why not just be like yeah whatever the money is secure and ready whenever you can manage.

I should of added I'm in Scotland where the SNP has froze any rise in the council tax over the last 4 years I think.

 

[steveR]

I think the big difference is with contractors there are no pension liabilities.

Interesting.... thanks for that.

Too bad that most contractor organisations seem to be 2nd rate at best!! Jobs for the boys grift runs rife too....

 

[Bogweevil]

In life you get what you pay for - underfund councils for 14 years you get failing, floundering councils

But electoral suicide to suggest increasing tax burden so we get what we are willing to pay for.

 

[The Crofter 89]

First prize must go to Highland Council who paid £880,000 last year to people who are no longer on their payroll. Incompetence doesn't even begin to touch it.

And they have the cheek to ask us what services we want to keep

 

[The Crofter 89]

In life you get what you pay for - underfund councils for 14 years you get failing, floundering councils

But electoral suicide to suggest increasing tax burden so we get what we are willing to pay for.

Where else do you see tax rising? We are already the most taxed we have ever been outside of world war.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

In life you get what you pay for - underfund councils for 14 years you get failing, floundering councils

But electoral suicide to suggest increasing tax burden so we get what we are willing to pay for.

But tax seems to be at a post war high.