Why is modern machinery so flipping unreliable?!

[Cowabunga]

Not wired. They 'update' them after a period of time to run slower.
When they were found to be doing it, they said it was to help the phone run for longer.
This does not actually make any sense but you must observe your own mind.

It makes sense because under a certain voltage the phones would cut out suddenly if the power demand was too high. Lower the demand and the battery would not cut out for a while longer on each charge. That’s what I understood anyhow but might be bullocks..

 

[FonterraFarmer]

100% and car customers wouldn't stand for this level of unreliability. Our newer machinery is at 1980s car reliability levels...

80's car reliability actually was quite good so I'd disagree ....
Incidently the ute of choice is from 1985.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Nah, 80’s cars were shite, it’s when I started driving and I used to have much more trouble with them in those early years than I do today, brakes and tyres used to wear out in no time and the steering was erratic, never knew when you’d wind up in the hedge.
They’ve been fine since the 90’s ?

 

[Lincsman]

I work on the principal that if a vehicle needs fuel it also needs all the fluids checking as well, always have and always will. Costs nothing to check and could save a engine.

I check the fluids, and they never need any, even oil in a non run-in engine (dont think running in is a thing anymore though) all I top up is washer water, the engine oil would be fine for 60K miles, but not so good for next owner.

Interestingly in a 1980's top of range Escort you got a row of lights to confirm all levels were fine, probably discontinued as they were always fine??

 

[Dave645]

Adblue systems are a perfect example of this.

Yes they should have adopted Mr Dyson’s emission capture rig .

 

[Hilly]

You are quite wrong about the cost of machines on a basic level. Machines are more productive than ever before and last longer. It is our income that has become unsustainably low to the extent that not only we cannot justify labour costs any longer but it has come to the point where we can't afford the machinery or even the running costs of the machinery that replaces labour and has made us as productive as we are.
Many farms on the verge of or are already unviable at current income levels. That's not the machinery manufacturers fault and in fact it does impact seriously on their own viability, which is dependent on agriculture's viability and prospects and confidence.

However, notwithstanding the above, farmers and contractors continue to buy ever bigger and more expensive machinery both to buy and run.

They do continue to buy over longer time scale etc etc

it’s only harder to fix if you don’t know how or have the right equipment

surely machines that actually tell you what’s wrong with them are easier to diagnose than older stuff that doesn’t ?

when overhead or twin cams, fuel injection l. electronic ignition etc were first introduced i bet all the old boy mechanics claimed no one would be able to understand or fix them !

Every now and again you post something and just makes me think how green is he , you ever out your office ? Do you have fairy soft hands

 

[7610 super q]

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that some on here go to trying to deny the blindingly obvious.
If a tractor does not have an ECU, Can- Bus , blister pads , potentiometers, Ad Blue, then it can't possibly have problems with the ECU, Can - Bus, blister pads, potentiometers, Ad blue..........
Ford went from the 10 series in 1991 with only 1 error code, and the only electrics being the dash, and engagement of Duel Power and 4wd to the 40 series complete with a list of error codes a mile long, potentiometers, sensors, electronic linkage , and pushy button gearbox.
Underneath the modern crap, tractors are fundamentally the same with an engine, gearbox, backend, and hydraulics. So you have all the old mechanical problems plus problems with the modern guff.
The workshop manual for the 10 series is 176 pages, the one for the 40 series is over 1500 pages. That says it all for me.

 

[Red Fred]

Just look at the Discovery handbrake- on my Skoda it is still just a Bowden cable and a hefty lever with a plastic knob on the end. On the Disco, for several times the initial cost, you get an electronic hand brake module which invariably fails when it gets crud and water in it, or else it just fails anyway, It is linked into the brains so it has a logic of its own, engaging if you sit still too long and flashing lights at you with failure warnings. Then they give you a wire emergency toggle hidden under the console which you have to pull with a hook when the system fails.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Just look at the Discovery handbrake- on my Skoda it is still just a Bowden cable and a hefty lever with a plastic knob on the end. On the Disco, for several times the initial cost, you get an electronic hand brake module which invariably fails when it gets crud and water in it, or else it just fails anyway, It is linked into the brains so it has a logic of its own, engaging if you sit still too long and flashing lights at you with failure warnings. Then they give you a wire emergency toggle hidden under the console which you have to pull with a hook when the system fails.

It would be very interesting to have a proper assessment of the comparable carbon footprint.

 

[Red Fred]

Did anyone ever really ask for an electronic motorised handbrake on their car? It hasn't added to my driving enjoyment, it just caused me stress when it failed in the petrol station the other day. After googling, it turns out to be a common problem and all the Disco nuts carry a hook to disengage it.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

I'm starting to go ballistic.
One year old 1500 hour tractor in at the dealers with the cab totally stripped out to find a wiring fault- found some stripped wires inside some conduit and other faults- been out of action for about ten days now. Warranty job.
One year old 1100 hour forklift sprang up all sorts of faults and won't move, not for the first time. Dealer came out to it yesterday and is back with it today with yet more testing kit and spare parts to try. Yesterday the diagnostics on the fitters laptop was contradicting itself.
Leaves us with two tractors, six of us and lots of pigs relying on this next to useless kit to get them fed, watered and generally tended to.
I want to be a dog and stick farmer.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Nah, 80’s cars were shite, it’s when I started driving and I used to have much more trouble with them in those early years than I do today, brakes and tyres used to wear out in no time and the steering was erratic, never knew when you’d wind up in the hedge. ☹
They’ve been fine since the 90’s ?

Admittedly European cars were pretty dire during the 80's in comparison to what was coming out of Japan or even Australia.?

 

[Goweresque]

The late 90s/early 00s were the peak of automotive reliability - if you want a car that will last forever (as long as you service it well) buy a VW or Audi from that era. Skodas particularly are renowned for being able to just go on and on indefinitely. If anyone follows the the excellent Youtube channel Car Throttle (which is like what Top Gear/Grand Tour used to be before it got too big and important) you'll know that they've had a couple of very high mileage cars, a late 90s Skoda and an early 00s Audi. Over 400k on the Skoda and over 500k on the Audi.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I check the fluids, and they never need any, even oil in a non run-in engine (dont think running in is a thing anymore though) all I top up is washer water, the engine oil would be fine for 60K miles, but not so good for next owner.

Interestingly in a 1980's top of range Escort you got a row of lights to confirm all levels were fine, probably discontinued as they were always fine??

Back in the 90's you could only go 25,000 miles without an oil change in a Ford.....?

 

[Cowabunga]

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that some on here go to trying to deny the blindingly obvious.
If a tractor does not have an ECU, Can- Bus , blister pads , potentiometers, Ad Blue, then it can't possibly have problems with the ECU, Can - Bus, blister pads, potentiometers, Ad blue..........
Ford went from the 10 series in 1991 with only 1 error code, and the only electrics being the dash, and engagement of Duel Power and 4wd to the 40 series complete with a list of error codes a mile long, potentiometers, sensors, electronic linkage , and pushy button gearbox.
Underneath the modern crap, tractors are fundamentally the same with an engine, gearbox, backend, and hydraulics. So you have all the old mechanical problems plus problems with the modern guff.
The workshop manual for the 10 series is 176 pages, the one for the 40 series is over 1500 pages. That says it all for me.

I had far more problems with my 7610 and 7810 tractors, kept for 3000 hours each, than I’ve had in 9500 hours on my 8360. That isn’t quite correct perhaps as by now the 8360 must have caught up but only two major issue and several minor ones spread over 23 years. All mechanical issues apart from batteries and fuel lift pump and corrosion on alternator connection the other day.

 

[Cowabunga]

Did anyone ever really ask for an electronic motorised handbrake on their car? It hasn't added to my driving enjoyment, it just caused me stress when it failed in the petrol station the other day. After googling, it turns out to be a common problem and all the Disco nuts carry a hook to disengage it.

Electrical handbrakes are not generally a problem. The one used on the Discovery was [and probably still is on older models that have it].

 

[Cowabunga]

The late 90s/early 00s were the peak of automotive reliability - if you want a car that will last forever (as long as you service it well) buy a VW or Audi from that era. Skodas particularly are renowned for being able to just go on and on indefinitely. If anyone follows the the excellent Youtube channel Car Throttle (which is like what Top Gear/Grand Tour used to be before it got too big and important) you'll know that they've had a couple of very high mileage cars, a late 90s Skoda and an early 00s Audi. Over 400k on the Skoda and over 500k on the Audi.

300,000 miles plus is not uncommon for many brands and models these days for high annual mileage vehicles such as taxis and long range delivery vehicles. To put 400,000 miles on any car at even 20,000 consistent miles per year takes all of 20 years remember. That's a hell of an annual mileage to maintain for 20 years on the same car. Even at a barely credible 50,000 miles a year, which generally needs shift work to achieve, it would take 8 year of persistence. It is quite possible and if driven and serviced sensibly, and due to very few cold starts and so on, they might not be in too bad a shape in some ways.

 

[bluebell]

question to our american friends, correct me if im wrong but are farmers in the USA talking about some sort of civil case against some tractor, farm machinery makers saying that now they have got so complicated electronically, that when a fault occurs they now cant fix it themselves as was in the recent past,that machinery could be home worked on.Now its alot more costly, having no choice but to pay what the dealer wants ?

 

[Filthyfarmer]

 

[Cowabunga]

question to our american friends, correct me if im wrong but are farmers in the USA talking about some sort of civil case against some tractor, farm machinery makers saying that now they have got so complicated electronically, that when a fault occurs they now cant fix it themselves as was in the recent past,that machinery could be home worked on.Now its alot more costly, having no choice but to pay what the dealer wants ?

There seems to be a generalised 'right to repair' official consultation going on in America at the moment with experts from all sides being asked to give evidence in what looks like a Court setting. It has been going on for a while with manufacturers trying to justify their restrictive practices while consumers and independent repairers have tried to put their case. It covers everything from consumer and electronic goods, computers, motherboards and systems found in all kinds of things including tractors and other industrial plant, trucks and cars. Cars have already been forced to open up their systems using the OBD2 connectors found under the dash of cars for over a decade now. Hopefully others will be forced to follow along with providing wiring diagrams and diagnostic codes and the means to change a wide variety of non-emission related parameters and codes.