Why not livestock in your rotation?

[Renaultman]

A sneaky 'catch you out' kind of question indeed which you successfully avoided answering!!
Was it a yes or a no?

I think livestock is becoming more and more attractive, with the loss and potential loss of valuable herbicides and the obvious benefits of their lovely muck. I just don't like sheep and can't afford cattle. Pigs and poultry can give you that lovely muck with pigs turning your straw into a more valuable resource.
I would love to work out a system with local livestock farms where I would take a rotational grass field off them for 3 years (wheat break wheat) and put one of mine in to grass in return.

 

[Renaultman]

Haven’t got the labour for it.

sometimes I get nostalgic about feeding the pigs on a Sunday or Christmas Day, then I remember the downsides.

yes we miss the pig muck.

F&M, poor prices, not enough animals to make it pay, more and more paperwork, places to sell them getting further and further away put pay to that job here.

What about B & B? It's very popular around here.

 

[Renaultman]

Been there, done that, got the t shirt, spent 20 years farming with cattle, still got the skill but not the will, life is too short for the hassle.
I'm not even sure arable farming needs livestock, abit of thinking outside the box, the use of cover crops +'maybe not cropping every single acre every year, the rotational use of fertility building crops in the non crop years, anythings godda be better than chewing on with some half mad limmie heffer.

laugh is for the limmy heifer, add the that to Suffolk ewes and you're in my hell.

 

[Sonoftheheir]

What about B & B? It's very popular around here.

Got enough to do with spuds

 

[martian]

It's the ensuing insurance claims I'd be worried about.

Strangely enough, didn't hear a squeak of complaint. Tim the Terrierman, who lives in one of the the nearest houses, even thanked me for trimming his hedge.
We once had a heifer escape and panic on it's own. Made its way (via half the gardens in Baldock) to a horse paddock adjacent to A1(M), police came and closed motorway, both directions and called up armed response unit, who shot the heifer. I was imagining the most enormous insurance claim and rang the NFU to brace them. In the end just got a nice cheque from insurers for the value of the heifer.
Moral of this story: chill out and it'll all be all right

 

[glasshouse]

Fencing isnt expensive compared to agrichem spend
Diy even cheaper
Grow your own grass seed

 

[Inky]

I was imagining the most enormous insurance claim and rang the NFU to brace them. In the end just got a nice cheque from insurers for the value of the heifer.
Moral of this story: chill out and it'll all be all right

I've also had a fair share of break outs next to towns and *touch wood* no large insurance claims landed on the door step. The worst and most stressful being some 2y old heifers getting out and ending up on a railway line to be hit by the stansted express hi speed train while the rest ran into the town, one running into a kwik-fit garage and the others into a cul de sac of town houses. Then there was the water buffalo stuck in a canal and the lone steer i had roaming around Harlow for 3 months.

Would the advent of GPS collars increase the use of livestock on arable land if the cost of perm fences / moving temp fences weren't so much of a issue?

 

[glasshouse]

I've also had a fair share of break outs next to towns and *touch wood* no large insurance claims landed on the door step. The worst and most stressful being some 2y old heifers getting out and ending up on a railway line to be hit by the stansted express hi speed train while the rest ran into the town, one running into a kwik-fit garage and the others into a cul de sac of town houses. Then there was the water buffalo stuck in a canal and the lone steer i had roaming around Harlow for 3 months.

Would the advent of GPS collars increase the use of livestock on arable land if the cost of perm fences / moving temp fences weren't so much of a issue?

Must have bern a lot of mince on thr line

 

[unlacedgecko]

"The cost of complexity" - having to have specialist livestock machinery and experienced labour 365 days a year.
By the time you total up the cost of feeder wagons, bedding machines, tractor hours, suitable shed space, bruiser, Ifor Williams stock box, silage operations, baling operations, changing loaders twice as often and the opportunity costs of the grass versus cropping and selling straw versus bedding.
Apart from some marginal soil gains, there's not a lot of incentive for livestock production in a fertile lowland situation when the mart price dictates that the market doesn't need any extra production.

No need for most of that machinery.

Quad and rappa system (£8k), 2nd hand stock box (£1000), mobile handling system (£12k), 2x stock dogs (£4k total).

That's all your moving parts sorted for £25k. Rappa fencing will last for we long as you're keeping stock if it's looked after. Spend the rest of your budget on productive assets.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Barely any dairies in EA .......
Too dry no grass

Perfectly suited to autumn block calving. I know of a large jersey herd making plenty of profit.

 

[unlacedgecko]

@teslacoils pm me please

 

[Goweresque]

No need for most of that machinery.

Quad and rappa system (£8k), 2nd hand stock box (£1000), mobile handling system (£12k), 2x stock dogs (£4k total).

That's all your moving parts sorted for £25k. Rappa fencing will last for we long as you're keeping stock if it's looked after. Spend the rest of your budget on productive assets.

My experience of tack sheep is they spend as much time outside the electric fencing as inside it. Hence why I've been putting up miles of stock fencing. Its a lot less stressful knowing there's a proper fence between livestock and roads, not just 3 wires and a battery that may decide to die at 4am...............thats before thinking about the deer that are very prevalent round here, and often go straight through the electric fences taking the whole lot with them.

 

[unlacedgecko]

My experience of tack sheep is they spend as much time outside the electric fencing as inside it. Hence why I've been putting up miles of stock fencing. Its a lot less stressful knowing there's a proper fence between livestock and roads, not just 3 wires and a battery that may decide to die at 4am...............thats before thinking about the deer that are very prevalent round here, and often go straight through the electric fences taking the whole lot with them.

My experience of tack sheep is very different.

Check the fence every day and replace the battery every week.

But even if you stock net everything, there's still no need for mixer wagons, extra tractors and hay/silage machinery.

 

[unlacedgecko]

In a fertile lowland scenario well managed intensive grazing will bring profits in excess of cropping.

 

[steveR]

My experience of tack sheep is they spend as much time outside the electric fencing as inside it. Hence why I've been putting up miles of stock fencing. Its a lot less stressful knowing there's a proper fence between livestock and roads, not just 3 wires and a battery that may decide to die at 4am...............thats before thinking about the deer that are very prevalent round here, and often go straight through the electric fences taking the whole lot with them.

So agree with your sentiment...

I installed a proper BW fence along our boundaries 20 odd years ago. It is so nice to be able to roll over and go back to bed* when you get the call in the middle of the night about "stock on the road" and know it's not ours!!

No deer around us, which is obviously a good thing, although Munties have been seen nearby!



* Which we don't, because we have a pretty good idea whose stock is out...

 

[steveR]

My experience of tack sheep is very different.

Check the fence every day and replace the battery every week.

But even if you stock net everything, there's still no need for mixer wagons, extra tractors and hay/silage machinery.

Or use a big ass solar panel! Trouble is they tend to be rather visible...

 

[lloyd]

No need for most of that machinery.

Quad and rappa system (£8k), 2nd hand stock box (£1000), mobile handling system (£12k), 2x stock dogs (£4k total).

That's all your moving parts sorted for £25k. Rappa fencing will last for we long as you're keeping stock if it's looked after. Spend the rest of your budget on productive assets.

£1000 on a livestock trailer
What you buying a shed on wheels?

Why do you need to spend so much on the other items ?

 

[steveR]

£1000 on a livestock trailer
What you buying a shed on wheels?

Why do you need to spend so much on the other items ?

Did think that myself... It's not an item to scrimp on if moving a lot of stock IMO...

 

[onesiedale]

We will have between 200 and 250 beef sired calves (mainly AA) available next spring. These would be perfectly suited to go into an 'arable type' system as a group for grazing once weaned. No buildings required once weaned, just a grazing plan that will take them through to finishing at 24-30 months of age. Proper low cost beef production and soil improvement too
Ideally an arrangement would be with one unit, however flexibility could be arranged where it suits all.
Anyone see it fitting into a business plan for next year??

 

[unlacedgecko]

£1000 on a livestock trailer
What you buying a shed on wheels?

Why do you need to spend so much on the other items ?

My 12ft GE box was £1000 4 years ago. I'm very happy with it. I assumed we were talking about a pick up drawn stock box rather than a tractor drawn float?

I bought a new quad as I've heard terrible things about second hand ones.

Mobile handling system is new, custom made and incorporates a combi clamp. But the same money would get you a large second hand Rappa.

£2k should buy you a turn key dog. I've never spent more than £100 on a dog, but I thought arable farmers becoming stock farmers would want something trained to a high standard right away.