Will we be ploughing for re seeding in the future?

[7610 super q]

All the hallmarks of being a loooooong thread. I'll rejoin tomorrow and skip 80 pages.....

 

[nails]

I took time out . PH dropped to low and the productive grasses gave up died . I'm back in the driving seat now . Reseeding again . I could not stand the thought of all that expensive ploughing . Ploughing all that goodness from the top layer underground, all that surface cultivating all that stone to pick , all those weeds seed bought up from the deep to spring back into life
Then it came to me. Deal with the weeds in the top layer then just drill into that . Its a miracle

There is a great story by Henry Williamson how they broke a field on some Norfolk banks , never been ploughed for generations, barely grew grass for rabbits , full of weeds , ploughed it and worked it and finally out that lifeless old field had a fine crop of oats. The plough breathed life into that tired old pasture.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

And then the soil/grassland reabsorbed the carbon.
It's the carbon cycle.

I know but ploughing releases and burns carbon so it's more carbon intensive whether the following crop absorbs it or not.

 

[tr250]

How much cheaper is a 100hp tractor and old Massey / Accord drill ?

You could buy or make plenty good enough direct drills to go behind your 7610. The 9 ton fendt brigade all do thousands of acres you need to be comparing a couple of quad tracks 10 furrow plough 8m press and 8m vad. You are comparing apples and pears

 

[serf]

One of the biggest problem to dd old grassland we find is the lack of any pest control, some Dursban in the roundup made grass to grass reseeding more reliable in the past. Nowadays very nervous about it tbh without a break crop as we have had odd complete failures in recent years and can’t think of any other reason. Drilled two fiends next to a major road in our area last year, one into turnips came very well, and one grass in what I thought was very good conditions which totally failed.....very visibly and to a regular customer.
Drilled one at home the next day and we had a very good result. Heavy land a direct drilling is a bit of a problem as well for our Erth drill, just can’t seem to get enough seed/soil contact on its own. The jury is out about the flat roller on it being effective enough.

I wouldn't try grass to grass , I been spring tineing it up and turnips , to give it break then short term grass legume and another clean up if needed before medium term grass .

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

How much are they ? I don't see much under £10k ( and I mean refurbished, ready to go ).
I'm using 4M ATM, so to pull a 4M DD, I'd have to upgrade my tractor. I wouldn't mind, as a high HP classic would hold it's value I'm sure.

I thought you had a 100 hp tractor? that will pull a 4m DD easily

 

[wanton dwarf]

surely only a lunatic would continue to damage their own environment ?

So if the ruling classes say "Can't do that 'cos environment" .. we all jump ?

Mean while Boris has loads of children, Boris's dad has a second/thrid/fourth home in Eastern Europe .. and Carris spends £100,000.00s on dressing up Number 10 in the latest fashion.

But that's not "Lunatic" ... 'cos they iz rich.

 

[wanton dwarf]

The best dd system moves the most soil , work it out

Yeah I was looking at these ridiculously expensive machines .. they're just Shakerators with a seed pipe at the back.

So who came up with this figure of x tonnes per hectare of CO2 and how was it verified ?

 

[bobk]

Yeah I was looking at these ridiculously expensive machines .. they're just Shakerators with a seed pipe at the back.

So who came up with this figure of x tonnes per hectare of CO2 and how was it verified ?

The damage to the environment was done in the industrial revolution , everything powered by coal ffs

 

[czechmate]

How much cheaper is a 100hp tractor and old Massey / Accord drill ?

An old Massey 130

 

[Bury the Trash]

Why buy one . £27/acre . Job done View attachment 956550

Let contractors do all my work?
No thanks.
The reason I farm is because I like the work, always been the same, that's why I started farming.

Sharing a drill with others in a similar position / like minded others would be a good idea, like they do on the continent ,yes now that is a good idea.

 

[Bury the Trash]

There is a great story by Henry Williamson how they broke a field on some Norfolk banks , never been ploughed for generations, barely grew grass for rabbits , full of weeds , ploughed it and worked it and finally out that lifeless old field had a fine crop of oats. The plough breathed life into that tired old pasture.

Broke up the suffocating thatch no doubt.

 

[Hilly]

The damage to the environment was done in the industrial revolution , everything powered by coal ffs

It’s still going on in Chy Na making our cheap sh!t , it’s typical of the sheeple in the U.K. out of sight out of mind but it’s all still their .

 

[czechmate]

I thought you had a 100 hp tractor? that will pull a 4m DD easily

I have a 4M Moore unidrill and it takes an extraordinary amount of pulling. Yes you could use 100hp, but you would max out at about 2km/hr.

 

[wanton dwarf]

OK let's bring in a few facts

“The amount of CO2 released by ploughing and cultivation during reseeding can be approximately three tonnes per hectare.

“When you look at it from a global level, you realise that 15-20 per cent of the CO2 in the world’s atmosphere comes from ploughing

The operative word is "Can" which is not "Is".

Of course the carbon in soils varies considerably. The fens has considerable amounts of Carbon whereas sandy or clay soils do not.

So that 15-20 percent figure is incorrect .. also you already know any soil which has been cultivated/ploughed has less carbon already. By 5 lots of ploughing using your figures there is no Carbon left to speak of .. yet according to you these soils are releasing carbon .. hmmm ????

 

[R J]

Diesel is one part.

What about the chemicals used? The slug pellets?

Why is a chemical that is sprayed on the land seen as bad , when a chemical (vaccine) injected into your arm to save a life seen as good ??
They are both "chemical"

 

[wanton dwarf]

Yes it does. Every acre I DD’d last Autumn used 1/8th the amount of diesel to establish the crop, compared to the plough + combi system. I used the same tractor on the DD drill as I use on the plough and the Combi. That tractor runs at 1500 rpm all day not doing any hard work, compared to when it is ploughing or Combi drilling.

But has higher inputs for both herbicide/fungicide sprays and fertiliser.

The plough will give those herbicide reductions for several years.

The DD won't solve RRR weeds .. whereas the plough will.

 

[neilo]

Or wireworms

Nonsense. We had everything ploughed and drilled with Spring Barley when we arrived here in March 2012, some of which was coming out of long term pp.

One of those fields was full of wireworm and the crop was almost entirely wiped out, despite double dose Dursban, twice.
Iirc it yielded about 0.5t/ac.

If you have an infestation of wireworm then ploughing won’t kill them.

As with leatherjackets, repeated cultivations may help to reduce numbers a bit, but that’s all.
Doing so will also reduce worm numbers, burn even more OM and decimate soil microbiology at the same time of course.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

The operative word is "Can" which is not "Is".

Of course the carbon in soils varies considerably. The fens has considerable amounts of Carbon whereas sandy or clay soils do not.

So that 15-20 percent figure is incorrect .. also you already know any soil which has been cultivated/ploughed has less carbon already. By 5 lots of ploughing using your figures there is no Carbon left to speak of .. yet according to you these soils are releasing carbon .. hmmm ????

It is about ploughing grassland, 5 lots of ploughing on grassland could be over 30 years or more . Most long term leys last 5 years +

 

[M-J-G]

Yeah I was looking at these ridiculously expensive machines .. they're just Shakerators with a seed pipe at the back.

So who came up with this figure of x tonnes per hectare of CO2 and how was it verified ?

I'm guessing it's not verified, what about when I plough in 30T of dung/Ha and plough it in as opposed to leaving it on the surface.