Working all your life at home on the farm with that old "It will be yours one day"

[Same man]

I wonder just how many of you are out there with that promise made to you, and when the time comes that you think after working at home for no more than a roof over your head and very often any money you have made you have invested into the farming business that had been promised to you from a very young age, has now all gone due to a will that has been made by your elderly parent who is also suffering from vascular dementia and not really having a clear mind to even know how he/she owns the farms that form part of his/her estate.

On top of this, the elderly and I must say, in the most vulnerable state, the parent find them self being locked away for the last few years of his/her life by a daughter and her sons, who have never played any part in the running of the farming business. The will being made during this time I must add.

Finding the right time to come back and take over when the elderly parent or parents have lost their ability to control anymore . They are locked away with no contact with the out side world and even the phone line cut off ,this is all during the pandemic period which assisted in the isolation, so cutting the phone off made no sense, but was done for one reason. now in an I deal position to get brainwashed and coursed leaving the farm, or farms, in a far different way to how they would have if they were still of a sound mind a thinking clearly.

You now find yourself in a position, of having worked all your life on that promise you have relied on all your working life, and very often under the control of the parent, has completely vanished, your life to you now seems worthless, and they wonder why farm suicide's are so high.

So where dose this leave you? it basically leaves you facing a very expensive battle to fight for what you have worked for all your working life, but having worked for little or no wage, for your entire life how the hell are to engage into a head on battle when solicitor's and barristers costs are what they are, how many farmers sons and daughters find themselves not able to fight for their rights and get truly stitched up.
Is it not time for people finding themselves in the above position get some sort of protection from some Government bill that could be passed, there must be hundreds if not thousands, out there finding themselves faced with these type of problem and unable to do anything, and they never even get heard of.

 

[Goweresque]

There are solicitors who will fight proprietary estoppel cases on a no win no fee basis, if they think you have a good chance of success, and the assets at stake are large enough to fund such a case. I know of one such case locally to me, the chap won his case but will end up paying a good proportion of his 'winnings' to his legal team. But will walk away with something rather than nothing.

Try and find a solicitor who is local-ish to you that specialises in such cases and get some advice pronto. The initial consultation will probably be free.

 

[An Gof]

There are solicitors who will fight proprietary estoppel cases on a no win no fee basis, if they think you have a good chance of success, and the assets at stake are large enough to fund such a case. I know of one such case locally to me, the chap won his case but will end up paying a good proportion of his 'winnings' to his legal team. But will walk away with something rather than nothing.

Try and find a solicitor who is local-ish to you that specialises in such cases and get some advice pronto. The initial consultation will probably be free.

I hope that’s not the same case I know of

 

[Same man]

Surely the other side should have to pay the costs of the winning side, and if that's the case then if the odds are stacked in the favour of the ones who spent their life at home working for no more than the promise, the thought of the incurred costs should be enough to make them think twice.

 

[chipchap]

Sadly this situation seems to be all too common in Agricultural backgrounds.

Although it is far too late in this case, and probably many others, it is always wise to get things out in the open and documented at the outset. Long periods of time and persistent coaching can sway the minds of older relatives.

I am not saying only those involved in the farm should inherit, but fair recognition should be given to all. An equitable and fair division may not be equal, and the older generation may wish to leave the business in a financial state whereby in can continue.

 

[serf]

The whole way the tax system is structured regards farming and farmland is towards "Dieing with Ur boots on "
Zeros the CGT level at death for future calculation at probate value .

If it changes hands before death you have the 7 year rule and a CGT liability triggered ( unless use hold over ) which would be automatically waived through on death with zero IHT liability as above ,

Hand it over and have risk of beneficiaries dieing in the wrong order / divorce ect ect ..

The whole system if screwed against handing assets over before death .

 

[Kidds]

Surely the other side should have to pay the costs of the winning side

Doesn't work like that and very often it is a case of which side can bankrupt the other first gets to win.

 

[Lincsman]

The best advice I can give is to those who it isnt too late and just starting out, ... dont get into that situation.. its all too easy when you are busy everyday, but there are many tools to avoid it at an early stage if you ask the right professional.

 

[Werzle]

The best run farms i know of gave the younger generation responsibility and accountability as soon as they returned from college and the worst run farms i know are still run by dictators treating the younger ones like cheap labour and taking the cheque book to bed with them ,with an i know best attitude.

 

[Same man]

Doesn't work like that and very often it is a case of which side can bankrupt the other first gets to win.

The best run farms i know of gave the younger generation responsibility and accountability as soon as they returned from college and the worst run farms i know are still run by dictators treating the younger ones like cheap labour and taking the cheque book to bed with them ,with an i know best attitude.

story of my life unfortunately, life time of being too loyal gets you no where, relied on the promises made though out a life time of what amounts to modern day slavery.
Never listened to, and told you don't know anything and being suppressed and basically doing as you are told, and then bullied into staying quiet by the threats of " I will sell the lot ", so you find your self just falling in line and staying quiet

 

[celtis man]

story of my life unfortunately, life time of being too loyal gets you no where, relied on the promises made though out a life time of what amounts to modern day slavery.
Never listened to, and told you don't know anything and being suppressed and basically doing as you are told, and then bullied into staying quiet by the threats of " I will sell the lot ", so you find your self just falling in line and staying quiet

Go and find a good reliable auctioneer/agent first (someone who you trust!) They should point you towards legal help .
I have heard of this before and when court was threatened the other party backed off for the fear of being out of pocket

 

[L P]

It's probably too obvious a question to have been overlooked, but who had power of attorney at the point your father was diagnosed with vascular dementia? Rum situation, sorry to hear you're in it. It's an issue that I'm potentially exposed to in the future, and those promises haven't appeared after quite a few discussions... just dealing with an impatient old boy that will be trying to start harvest in May soon and agrees with nothing!

 

[Turnip]

Head situations off before they happen. If the parent won't set up a partnership agreement then move on, walk away. Doesn't have to give you a controlling interest but should include what happens in case of death or life changing situations. Changes to the partnership agreement to be ratified by all active partners. Active meaning actively contributing to the running of the partnership.

Siblings can be named as partners but don't have to contribute to the farm while still having a financial stake in it.

 

[kiwi pom]

I've always been curious about this. For those of you with farming parents who stayed at home (with maybe a quick trip to Ag collage) why did you stay at home after leaving school? Were you specifically told, "I know you want to go off into the world but stay here and work for nothing (not strictly true) and we'll give you the farm". Or is it more a case of wanting to stay home and your parents agreeing even if they think it to be a bad idea?

 

[Werzle]

Power of attorney ppwork can be downloaded , filled out and sent off to be verified. Neighbours did it for their parents, cost £180 and saved solicitors on £500/hr.

 

[L P]

I've always been curious about this. For those of you with farming parents who stayed at home (with maybe a quick trip to Ag collage) why did you stay at home after leaving school? Were you specifically told, "I know you want to go off into the world but stay here and work for nothing (not strictly true) and we'll give you the farm". Or is it more a case of wanting to stay home and your parents agreeing even if they think it to be a bad idea?

I was asked to come back and didn't terribly want to at the time as I had a very good job in farming, but my older brother didn't have his heart in it and dad needed the help.I never expected to take on the farm as the younger son. I treat it with all the pride that I'm the custodian, but actually that's not currently the case. Of course I don't want to leave, it's my biggest pride after 20 years here... but for the thread, it is obviously the OPs scenario but he's having the rug pulled from under him which is nothing but immoral of his family... would I jump ship in his shoes? No, is the short answer. I'd fight for what I fought for for most of my life.

 

[Same man]

It's probably too obvious a question to have been overlooked, but who had power of attorney at the point your father was diagnosed with vascular dementia? Rum situation, sorry to hear you're in it. It's an issue that I'm potentially exposed to in the future, and those promises haven't appeared after quite a few discussions... just dealing with an impatient old boy that will be trying to start harvest in May soon and agrees with nothing!

He was on medication in 2017 for dementia, then in Jan 2018 officially diagnosed with Vascular dementia, the medication he was on in 2017 was Memantine apparently this is for moderate to servia

 

[Same man]

He was on medication in 2017 for dementia, then in Jan 2018 officially diagnosed with Vascular dementia, the medication he was on in 2017 was Memantine apparently this is for moderate to Servia dementia, the sisters were made power of attorney in 2021. Not been able to see him since Feb 2021, raised my concerns with various bodies but all these authorities that we have to deal with never act until its too late including the Police. normal people today have no chance , common sense has long gone.

 

[L P]

He was on medication in 2017 for dementia, then in Jan 2018 officially diagnosed with Vascular dementia, the medication he was on in 2017 was Memantine apparently this is for moderate to servia

Do you have any idea who was lasting power of attorney at that point in 2018? Assuming there was one?

 

[som farmer]

l was told, it will all be yours one day, so worked my guts out, looking back, l was cheap labour.

It was pretty obvious that one sibling would be after every last penny she could get, he knew that, and l asked if he had 'sorted' things out. I was assured he had. He hadn't.

If l had known that, l would have moved on, it was so certain it was going to be a right mess, and he knew that.

He died suddenly, and it was a mess, l could cope with 1 sister, but she had twisted mother round, something unexpected. Good solicitor managed to stop the farm being sold, and a 'agreement' was cobbled together, with a further agreement, to sort tax etc out, and fairly treat everybody involved, she refused to sign it.

so 27 years on, l now face the prospect of paying siblings out. My son farms here now, so we are faced with some hard choices, sell up, and move on, if we do that, his chances of getting his own farm, are remote, So we will try and sort 'something' out, the farm will shrink, land value is such, it would be to big a mortgage to remain viable.

And all so avoidable. Never underestimate the avarice of siblings, when large sums of money are involved, any loyalty goes out the window. We looked at estottal, l simply couldn't afford to risk the money l had.