'Yorkshire Disease' (only joking) hits Europeans!

[Spud]

Hells bells and buttercups, what a palava this has turned into!

For the record, I have organised (more recently guided others to) a local YFC match for the last 14yrs, iirc. I am proud to say we have hosted all of the four ploughmen mentioned in the op at one time or another, Ray Alderson and Ian Berriman at almost every one of those matches. Well done chaps

 

[Ley253]

I can see where Ley253 is coming from (to coin a phrase) if a ploughman has to handle to qualify for the National then you could argue he got there by false pretences. You could also argue that by ploughing and not handling would be good practice for the World and other international matches where it is strictly banned. So I can see where he is coming from when he says we won’t do well until the rule breaking is eradicated. Practice makes perfect.


A few years ago I organised a match which was attended by some well known serial handlers. When the results were announced there were only 10 points separating the first three, two serial handlers 1st and 2nd and third was a very good and well known ploughman who denounces any manipulation of the furrows. Both the first or second prize winners had stopped repeatedly when putting their crown together to rearrange the furrows to look neat and remove any stubble poking out, one scored 4 points and the other 3 points more than the “hands off” man. It was the same when it came to the final furrow and when they had finished both of the handlers walked down their furrows to collect their poles from the other end, carefully treading any lose soil in the furrow bottom as they went and levelling any soil out of place. When handling was casually mentioned to the judge he said could only judge the ploughing as it was to be seen, finished. When mentioned to the first prize winner he glibly said ploughing was an art form and as an artist he felt he should be allowed to touch his work up when standing back and looking at it. The second prize winner said he handled to compete as everyone else did. I felt sympathetic for the chap who came third without a murmur. All the spectators knew who the real winner should have been.

This begs the question. As a person in authority( the organiser), why did you refrain from awarding penalty points? A duty quite within your remit. The judge was quite correct, it is not his job to enforce the rules, though some are, in desperation, beginning to do this.

 

[Fergie Ploughman]

I really don't know what to think when I read all this!

We all know you should not manipulate furrows, full stop. We also all know you shouldn't be pulling straw/trash out from the ploughed ground. Where do you draw the line ? Am I allowed to pull some straw out if the furrow is still 'being turned' by my board ? well I think I am... If I've hit a stone and had lift up or back up, am I allowed to kick the clod over and chuck the stone out the way ? well I think I am... If I have to straighten up the 2 foot bent the clown next to me has done, and I have to plough over ploughed ground and I block up, can I move the trash ? well I think I can... Its always going to be a little blurred, therefore there has to be give and take. There seems to be a lot of 'holier than thou' on here, who God forbid cannot touch the earth....

Serial gardening is wrong, tucking/pulling a piece of stubble on a real nice piece of work, is probably fine, so how do we get a bit of give or take. I see people walking/patting there cop's all the way down, it naffs me off! Surely there needs to be a bit of sense to this.

If I'm at a match and gardening is in abundance, well I will join in - when in Rome, as they say.... If I was at a match where it is strictly not allowed, well guess what, I'll keep my hands clean! I'm buggered if I'm going to keep my hands out the soil if everyone else is doing it, that's plain stupid, as clearly the match has no issue with it.

I would suggest this sits with the match organisers to enforce as they see fit. I would like to see all matches have a no gardening policy, but it must be fairly administered across all competitors. Just to have an SOP rule saying you can't is ridiculous, its needs the match organiser to have the rule and sufficient stewards to enforce; this is clearly a problem for the smaller matches.

I really don't know how you move forward on this, but I would say it has to sit with the match organisers, which I for one would happily go along with.

Out of Interest who are the serial offenders ? certainly the people I plough with are not unknown to garden, but I would refer to them as serial offenders...

 

[Ley253]

The only people who have a hope of getting to grips with all this are the organisers, and as long as the great god ENTRY FEE reigns supreme, nothing will get done. What would make a big impact would be organisers to get together and refuse entries from serial offenders. This would need ploughing matches to gather together and form "centres" in the way the ACU did for moto x etc. The card system seems to be gaining strength, and I for one would, if given the choice, attend a match using it in preference to one that was not. even if it was a few more miles away. I am beginning to think that if you are surrounded by handlers, and nothing is done, pull out and go home, the organisers dont care about honest competitors, so may not care about honest judging either!

 

[arcobob]

The only people who have a hope of getting to grips with all this are the organisers, and as long as the great god ENTRY FEE reigns supreme, nothing will get done. What would make a big impact would be organisers to get together and refuse entries from serial offenders. This would need ploughing matches to gather together and form "centres" in the way the ACU did for moto x etc. The card system seems to be gaining strength, and I for one would, if given the choice, attend a match using it in preference to one that was not. even if it was a few more miles away. I am beginning to think that if you are surrounded by handlers, and nothing is done, pull out and go home, the organisers dont care about honest competitors, so may not care about honest judging either!

Anyone who has been following the athletics doping scandal will realise what happens when the rule makers and governing body lose control of cheating. Unfortunately there is going to be no enforced improvement from the top when some of the senior executives of the SOP are among the worst offenders. It is up to local match organisers to band together and create their own rules and methods of enforcement as you suggest because the SOP is an outright failure in this respect.

 

[Howard150]

Anyone who has been following the athletics doping scandal will realise what happens when the rule makers and governing body lose control of cheating. Unfortunately there is going to be no enforced improvement from the top when some of the senior executives of the SOP are among the worst offenders. It is up to local match organisers to band together and create their own rules and methods of enforcement as you suggest because the SOP is an outright failure in this respect.

At Last. A chink of daylight however small
Common ground in what I have been saying from day 1. It is the organisers of the match who need to impose whatever sanctions they see fit according to what they are prepared to tolerate at their match.

As for Athletics and doping, FIFA and corruption this is far far removed from what we do. Some kind of corruption or reward always seems to appear in most competitive organisations, similar in a manner to that described most adeptly in Animal Farm by Goerge Orwell

There are no ploughmen that I am aware of who do this for reward / gain. Prize money goes nowhere remotely near covering fuel costs let alone anything else.

 

[arcobob]

At Last. A chink of daylight however small
Common ground in what I have been saying from day 1. It is the organisers of the match who need to impose whatever sanctions they see fit according to what they are prepared to tolerate at their match.

As for Athletics and doping, FIFA and corruption this is far far removed from what we do. Some kind of corruption or reward always seems to appear in most competitive organisations, similar in a manner to that described most adeptly in Animal Farm by Goerge Orwell

There are no ploughmen that I am aware of who do this for reward / gain. Prize money goes nowhere remotely near covering fuel costs let alone anything else.

Doping scandals concerning Russian and at one time East German athletes have been rife since the 1960s if not before. They did not perform for money in those days but it has to be said that it must have been state sponsored in order to promote power of the state in propaganda terms. Some people must think it is worth cheating when there is no financial gain in doing so otherwise why are they doing it ?

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I would suggest this sits with the match organisers to enforce as they see fit. I would like to see all matches have a no gardening policy, but it must be fairly administered across all competitors. Just to have an SOP rule saying you can't is ridiculous, its needs the match organiser to have the rule and sufficient stewards to enforce; this is clearly a problem for the smaller matches.

at last someone has grasped it,
and is far better responce than just bleating on and moaning about the SOP or the ploughmen at the match handling,
the book STOPS with the match organisers, full stop

 

[Ley253]

It should, but as the SOP takes it upon its self to make a rule, it falls upon the rule maker to have some method of enforcement. That said, the SOP has a right to expect affiliated societies to comply with and enforce its rules, it is however hamstrung by its reliance on affiliation fees, so it cant lean on anyone to get things moving.The card system is working, matches using it need to publicise the fact, so that with time it will be taken up everywhere.

 

[Mydexta]

I saw a belter on Sunday
Lad did his opening, then his chip into the bottom
Of the opening, however he "forgot" to put his right hand disc in his plough frame to take to the other end, so walked all the way down his opening, on top of his chip, picked up his disc and walked all the way back, again on top of his chip

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I saw a belter on Sunday
Lad did his opening, then his chip into the bottom
Of the opening, however he "forgot" to put his right hand disc in his plough frame to take to the other end, so walked all the way down his opening, on top of his chip, picked up his disc and walked all the way back, again on top of his chip

are bugger that my legs are bad, wind it over a bit on cross shaft and drive doon the middle and mash it doon wid the tractor wheel