Zack Bush - How roundup and other chemicals in modern farming are killing us.

[jack6480]

you are so correct when i moved here thirty years ago the farm had been predominantly cearrials for the previous ten years and before that early spuds with irrigation, dont get me wrong its a good farm with a high reputation , but the first problem i found was slugs until then i had never spread a slug pellet every one told me you have to feed the slugs its because of the mild winters, then one year i put a difficult field into settaside and all that year we carted muck out onto it my agronomist said i would never get the slugs under control after that but we had the finest crop of winter wheat and not a slug in sight the conclusion was the slugs were such a problem because of the lack of humus over the years we have rotated and mucked fields and got the humus levels up and we dont need slug pellets , and what is nicer than ploughing up grass with all those long smooth furrows with ll those bristly roots poking out and anticipating the next crop. on the subject of buggering up the soil i was watching them prepare for potatoes a couple of weeks ago they ploughed it a foot deep (when i say plough they turned it brown)then went through with a subsoiler then power harrowed it destoned it ridged it and planted it i counted three passes with the power harrow the ground was pulverised into submission then the chap talks about soil structure ffs one problem is to much horse power

6 tractors in a 60 acre field near to me getting a field from potatoes and into maize!! Progress

 

[Guleesh]

I think the answer is, a more 'mixed' system, ground re-acts to a 'rest' or break. Arable farms now are really mono culture, the rotation being a change of crop. A lot of very light ground around here, is suffering some serious yield drops, basically, they have raped the soil of nature, and now, there's nothing left. Its how to restore that nature, or to halt its decline, that, is the question. I think we have to stop continuous ploughing, all that achieves, is the loss of worms, bugs and fungi, that help to keep soil healthy. The obvious and easiest way, is to reintroduce livestock, as part of the equation, easier said than done.
But, it could, quite easily be achieved, with a different mind set. Instead of chasing more and more acres, to justify the huge cost of modern arable equipment, take a step, or two, backwards, ease the work load, ease the frantic rush, just find a keen young farmer, who is prepared to work with you, with his livestock, to create that real break, your soils need, at the moment, more relevant, in thinner soils, but could help the heavier maintain a higher level.

All these things were understood and practiced throughout UK and Europe 150 years ago and before. The old UK farm system of having a little of everything and a specialist man employed to do each bit, a shepherd , a herdsman a ploughman and so on. Even without any of the modern science to show and prove the methods they had pretty much nailed the most efficient systems possible just through through trial and error.

Industrial revolution and mechanisation removed the labourers from the land but also put more and more decision making onto the farmer or manager at the top, as all his specialized workers and his team weren't needed anymore. It's not the labour loss that was harmful it's really the brain drain from agriculture that's left it where it is today -in my opinion.

There's not going to be many individuals (although there will always be some) who can manage, understand and have experience in ALL aspects of farming, fruit, veg, fodder crops, sheep, cows, pigs, poultry even wild game and every other thing imaginable to do on the land. In order to be successful in the current highly competitive world economy, a farmer needs to master and perfect his art rather than be a jack of all trades.

It was well understood in the past that a farmer or farm manager was there to overlook the whole operation and 'steer the ship' through delegation to a skilled workforce, to manage rotations of land usage over several years and in fact manage a farm in what can only be described as holistically.

 

[bumkin]

i think one of the big turning points was the depression in the thirties and ww2 they sent the warag out to tell the ignorant peasants they were doing it all wrong , what they didnt seem to grasp was the fact that those left in farming were skint it wasnt through the lack of skill it was the lack of money, in the end the warag became adas and the us word was specialisation so all those mixed farms either packed up or became dairy specialists or barley barons i remember an old chap telling me about an advisor telling a farmer he should buy more concentrates and do this and that give up growing roots and kale, as this was the way forward, the farmer left the pub and came back half an hour later with all his milk receipts for the last year and he averaged 100 gallons a day from 28 cows and he never used bought in feed that is a skill that has been lost make the most of what you have , all through the post war years we have had experts telling us what to do and look where it has got us
the biggest problem is making it pay and we are desperate to survive and follow advise given by the educated experts all i can say if they were any use they would be doing it for themselves

 

[Guleesh]

educated experts all i can say if they were any use they would be doing it for themselves

I couldn't agree more.

 

[som farmer]

i think one of the big turning points was the depression in the thirties and ww2 they sent the warag out to tell the ignorant peasants they were doing it all wrong , what they didnt seem to grasp was the fact that those left in farming were skint it wasnt through the lack of skill it was the lack of money, in the end the warag became adas and the us word was specialisation so all those mixed farms either packed up or became dairy specialists or barley barons i remember an old chap telling me about an advisor telling a farmer he should buy more concentrates and do this and that give up growing roots and kale, as this was the way forward, the farmer left the pub and came back half an hour later with all his milk receipts for the last year and he averaged 100 gallons a day from 28 cows and he never used bought in feed that is a skill that has been lost make the most of what you have , all through the post war years we have had experts telling us what to do and look where it has got us
the biggest problem is making it pay and we are desperate to survive and follow advise given by the educated experts all i can say if they were any use they would be doing it for themselves

beware of the land agent, advisor or salesman, in red yellow or pink corduroy trousers, they never have much to give you.
like you say, in the 'old' days, the tractor was the horse, which could replace itself, the diesel was the hay you made, the cattle/sheep/pigs, provided the manure, that fertilized the corn, good rotation, least expense. Obviously not applicable now, but was a pretty neat system. Them that did that, in the 20/30's, survived.

 

[bumkin]

i think the big problem is where do we go from here i am not stuck in the past and i understand we have to make a profit so what do we do, the upland sheep farmers will keep on doing the same its all they can do its the lowland farmers that are in the sh#t we have given up fattening cattle this year why because there is no money in it i don't know if its over supply or what but i cant buy stores at the price they are and sell them at this price with weight limits and all we have had great difficulty in marketing cattle in the last year having to keep them too long and then they are over weight incurring penalties (mind you i haven't seen beef any on the shelf saying this steak is free because we haven't paid for it)so after fifty years i have given up its heart breaking i enjoy my cattle and have always had great pride in them , so we have just got the sheep and arable and we are being forced to farm in a way that we dont want to just like our forefathers i look at the balance sheet and wonder what we should do the future is looking grim from where i'm sitting, those of us that are left are wondering where it will be in the future when i was a kid a 100 acre farm would be a farmer and a couple of staff now that amount of staff would not be on a 1000 acres perhaps its just me i think i liked better it when we had men around the farm a few jokes and a bit of banter over lunch personaly i think the job has gone tits up i would love to farm with a rotation and live stock but if i want to stay in the job i will have to go modern and spray the f##k out of every thing

 

[newholland]

@bumkin

Just thinking out loud, why not try to return to a similar version of your 100ac of happiness scenario. Cut out the supermarket …… rear some holistically grazed cattle for direct meat box sales, get somebody to start a market garden on 5 acers, get somebody to start a grass fed micro dairy with direct milk sales from 20cows, maybe convert an old building for a four milling enterprise or green wood work using trees on your farm or similar. You would have 100ac of busy farm in all directions and get a variety of quality food. There seems to be a lot of people looking for small business opportunities under the wing of existing farms …. maybe that is the way to get people back on farm?

 

[som farmer]

@bumkin

Just thinking out loud, why not try to return to a similar version of your 100ac of happiness scenario. Cut out the supermarket …… rear some holistically grazed cattle for direct meat box sales, get somebody to start a market garden on 5 acers, get somebody to start a grass fed micro dairy with direct milk sales from 20cows, maybe convert an old building for a four milling enterprise or green wood work using trees on your farm or similar. You would have 100ac of busy farm in all directions and get a variety of quality food. There seems to be a lot of people looking for small business opportunities under the wing of existing farms …. maybe that is the way to get people back on farm?

in 1950, adverts for cowsheds, 24 cows with feed troughs, £1,150, erected, that, related, to your post, shows the common way then, add chickens/eggs/meat, pigs, and a large veg garden, a profitable business, supporting 2 or 3 families, you can see why farming was a good life. Fast forward to now, mixed farming is pretty well gone, mono culture, and intensive farming, all rush, and go, Its rather different, and labour is minimal.
We cant all go back to those systems, but i honestly think we can simplify our farming, advisors, reps etc, have all talked us into 'investment, and improvement', but for who's benefit ? Certainly not ours, because we run faster every year, to stay solvent. Whether its to late to change, i don't know.

 

[Blaithin]

@bumkin

Just thinking out loud, why not try to return to a similar version of your 100ac of happiness scenario. Cut out the supermarket …… rear some holistically grazed cattle for direct meat box sales, get somebody to start a market garden on 5 acers, get somebody to start a grass fed micro dairy with direct milk sales from 20cows, maybe convert an old building for a four milling enterprise or green wood work using trees on your farm or similar. You would have 100ac of busy farm in all directions and get a variety of quality food. There seems to be a lot of people looking for small business opportunities under the wing of existing farms …. maybe that is the way to get people back on farm?

Here there’s a program called Young Agrarians where existing farms take on apprentices interested in regenerative or organic farming, then act as mentors. Each set up is different but I’ve heard of some that just give the apprentice a patch of dirt to grow whatever they want on and try and sell.

It’s kind of struck me as similar to the WWOOFer program without all the hoops of actually being organic.

 

[bumkin]

this talk of organics reminds me of my cousin who went to do a course on agriculture in the eighties and came back and announced that FYM cost more to spread than it was worth, my uncle was not impressed, he was very trad believed in lime and basic slag, and thought rye grass was little better than couch grass and nitrates just buggered up a good pasture