British friesian bulls

Beef farmer · Jan 12, 2016

Cows 'n grass said:
I was just thinking of starting a 'what Friesian '? thread but mine was going to be about what Friesian bull(s) to use over my jerseys. I guess this thread has the attention of most of the Friesian enthusiasts on here so here goes....

I started crossing 8/9 years ago when the farm was organic but when I came out of organic 4/5 years ago the only contract I could get was a channel island one so I sold the mongrel mob and went back to pure jerseys. I now have the opportunity to move to a standard manufacturing contract again so I'd like to have another for at crossing.

I only used 2 bulls, one was Hugo a kiwi Friesian and the other was Winnoch Officer a BF. I didn't really rate the Hugo daughters all that highly they mostly had jersey yields with Friesian solids. They were all sold as second calvers so may have got better as they matured. I preferred the Winnoch officer daughters, this was one of them.
View attachment 264296

I'm all spring calving and want to send more protein off the farm because it pays so much higher than fat, so I'm looking for a bit more volume than the jerseys while maintaining a good protein %. I also want to breed a slightly hardier animal, better suited to living out most of the year but I'm keen that the cows don't get too big.

Any thoughts? I certainly haven't ruled out using kiwi bulls again but also quite like the look of Quentin and some of the Catlane bulls.

Ayrshire

Cows 'n grass · Jan 12, 2016

I've still got my 2 Ayrshire crosses, i never sold them because I figured that any cow that was sort of brownish might pass for a Jersey if I ever got inspected. I quite like them.

Sid · Jan 12, 2016

You can only choose a bull when you've seen the cows. The amount of reps who tell you what you need when they haven't seen your cows or their parentage is amazing.

Cows 'n grass · Jan 12, 2016

Sid said:
You can only choose a bull when you've seen the cows. The amount of reps who tell you what you need when they haven't seen your cows or their parentage is amazing.

So are you saying you've seen daughters of every AI sire you've ever used before you purchased the straws?

I've seen quite a few Quentin daughters about in friends block autumn calving herds, they look okay if a bit beefy, but seeing BF daughters out of Holstein X Scandinavian isn't all that relevant when I'm looking for something that will produce a good heifer out of a jersey. I think I'd have to travel a fair way to see many different 1st cross BFs out of jerseys so I think I'm stuck just relying on proofs.

celtis man · Jan 12, 2016

We've used a fair bit of culverness Wallace the heifers seem to be ok well they look nice and the ones in milk seem to give good fat and protein .

Friesianfan · Jan 12, 2016

You have the fortunate position of choosing any bloodline in the breed! In my opinion the three best Are tittenser hylke,Black Isle Glen albyn and marshside rocket 3rd. In your situation I would go with hylke sons, eg. Morcourt Hilton

In my opinion you would find Goonhilly cadan hard to beat

http://ukcows.com/holsteinuk/publicweb/AnimalData/data/ASMalefs.asp?AnimalID=39404574 As good as

Maxxum-man · Jan 12, 2016

Anyone used Mr frosty? Wasn't he the Friesian to have until they found Holstein bloodlines...... I nearly used him but was told his temperament was abit feisty

Friesianfan · Jan 12, 2016

Maxxum-man said:
Anyone used Mr frosty? Wasn't he the Friesian to have until they found Holstein bloodlines...... I nearly used him but was told his temperament was abit feisty

I never used him.his fertility scores are worse than a Holstein! They looked like Holstein too

RastaBoy · Jan 12, 2016

Catlane Crusader. God I'm old !!

Hill Dairy · Jan 12, 2016

Cows 'n grass said:
So are you saying you've seen daughters of every AI sire you've ever used before you purchased the straws?

I've seen quite a few Quentin daughters about in friends block autumn calving herds, they look okay if a bit beefy, but seeing BF daughters out of Holstein X Scandinavian isn't all that relevant when I'm looking for something that will produce a good heifer out of a jersey. I think I'd have to travel a fair way to see many different 1st cross BFs out of jerseys so I think I'm stuck just relying on proofs.

IMO if you really want a bull to suit grass based block calving you have got to see the dams production and calving records. Genus and some of the Irish company's now provide this else the relevance of an AYR TMR fed blood line has to be questionable. Otherwise you've got to look to nz and breed worth.

Flappityflippers · Jan 12, 2016

Friesianfan said:
You should try the modern British friesian. I think you would be pleasantly surprised!View attachment 264168

That's a lovely looking heifer, is she a Catlane Chad daughter? Our Chads are just calves but looking forward to seeing them develop.

My father in law was a wise man hence no Mr Frosty has ever crossed our threshold!

Durry cows · Jan 12, 2016

@Cows 'n grass if you are serious about using an Ayrshire there are benefits to be had, I am in the fortunate position of seeing a lot of herds and daughters. I think you could get some good results with hunnington mandella, his dam is 22 years old and the daughters are spot on, can't recall his protein percentages but milk, good feet, good all round cows that aren't too big with the best udders you can find!!

More to life · Jan 12, 2016

Friesianfan said:
You should try the modern British friesian. I think you would be pleasantly surprised!View attachment 264168

Cows 'n grass said:
So are you saying you've seen daughters of every AI sire you've ever used before you purchased the straws?

I've seen quite a few Quentin daughters about in friends block autumn calving herds, they look okay if a bit beefy, but seeing BF daughters out of Holstein X Scandinavian isn't all that relevant when I'm looking for something that will produce a good heifer out of a jersey. I think I'd have to travel a fair way to see many different 1st cross BFs out of jerseys so I think I'm stuck just relying on proofs.

Why not look at small holsteins like Laurelhill classic and what do you intend to do with the next cross

madscientist · Jan 12, 2016

Love Hybrids. Lots of vitality in new borns. Good front Bags and durability a trait from Ayrshire/friesan crossbreeding.

cattow · Jan 12, 2016

Our best old cows would be Metropolis daughters, Dad would never use Dutch bulls as he didn't think their cell counts where good enough but I've used 3 Hylte sons mostly Tarquin . Currently using Chad, Snowstorm, Clarity & Clarity's brother on the heifers

Friesianfan · Jan 12, 2016

Flappityflippers said:
That's a lovely looking heifer, is she a Catlane Chad daughter? Our Chads are just calves but looking forward to seeing them develop.

My father in law was a wise man hence no Mr Frosty has ever crossed our threshold!

Yes a Chad daughter, now in the Beaufort herd

Sid · Jan 12, 2016

Cows 'n grass said:
So are you saying you've seen daughters of every AI sire you've ever used before you purchased the straws?

I've seen quite a few Quentin daughters about in friends block autumn calving herds, they look okay if a bit beefy, but seeing BF daughters out of Holstein X Scandinavian isn't all that relevant when I'm looking for something that will produce a good heifer out of a jersey. I think I'd have to travel a fair way to see many different 1st cross BFs out of jerseys so I think I'm stuck just relying on proofs.

No I mean a rep telling you to use Bull X and they haven't even looked at your cows!

Cows 'n grass · Jan 12, 2016

Hill Dairy said:
IMO if you really want a bull to suit grass based block calving you have got to see the dams production and calving records. Genus and some of the Irish company's now provide this else the relevance of an AYR TMR fed blood line has to be questionable. Otherwise you've got to look to nz and breed worth.

I agree with most of that but I don't really like the BW score, I do like the Irish stuff that Genus sell in so much as you can see that the dam has done 10 lactations+ on a block calving system and as barely slipped a day. A fertile cow on a tmr will still be a fertile cow on a grass based system and sires like Quentin, Hilton and Chad have great fertility scores. I would only ever use a +ve fertility bull.

Mr Jones · Jan 12, 2016

Maxxum-man said:
Anyone used Mr frosty? Wasn't he the Friesian to have until they found Holstein bloodlines...... I nearly used him but was told his temperament was abit feisty

Have a Frosty milking here, awful temperament, won't hold until her third/fourth service. Apart from that gallons and gallons of milk from her, and a hfr calf from her in early December

Hill Dairy · Jan 12, 2016

Cows 'n grass said:
I agree with most of that but I don't really like the BW score, I do like the Irish stuff that Genus sell in so much as you can see that the dam has done 10 lactations+ on a block calving system and as barely slipped a day. A fertile cow on a tmr will still be a fertile cow on a grass based system and sires like Quentin, Hilton and Chad have great fertility scores. I would only ever use a +ve fertility bull.

I agree with quentin and hilton on fertility a load of our 4th 5th lactation cows are out of these. But since using more nz and Irish block calving Friesian we have increased solids % every year without dropping yeald. I also think there better grazers especially as young stock we've hardly had to touch concentrate to hit target weights.

British friesian bulls

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