The role of British farmers today

milkloss · Feb 21, 2017

It's a very good subject @brynseiri because in order to secure our future we're going to have to steer our politicians to provide it for us. I'm not feeling a movement in any direction and feel our organisations that represent us are going to fudge it if we're not careful. We really need to work out what we want our role to be and how to get it.

farmerclare · Feb 21, 2017

https://www.fginsight.com/news/news...rt-and-get-a-740-return-says-new-report-18948

Henarar · Feb 21, 2017

there is far more to farming than just farmers and that will be found out if subs go, you can't take that sort of money away from farming and not make a difference, its all the businesses that rely on farming or partly rely on farming that want to worry, they would feel the biggest pinch, men in suits will be shown the door
lots of talk about farmers not looking after the countryside, well it looks fine around here, some sound like those on the telly when they want to do farming down, they shown film of bloody great fields of corn and talk about monoculture funny enough they don't show a film of our little valley

czechmate · Feb 21, 2017

Henarar said:
there is far more to farming than just farmers and that will be found out if subs go, you can't take that sort of money away from farming and not make a difference, its all the businesses that rely on farming or partly rely on farming that want to worry, they would feel the biggest pinch, men in suits will be shown the door
lots of talk about farmers not looking after the countryside, well it looks fine around here, some sound like those on the telly when they want to do farming down, they shown film of bloody great fields of corn and talk about monoculture funny enough they don't show a film of our little valley

Another example from the "good old days", I helped several farmers dip sheep. They all had the dips sited right next to a stream/ditch so they could just pull out the plug and let it go. Everything looks fine as you can't see these small details

Henarar · Feb 21, 2017

czechmate said:
Another example from the "good old days", I helped several farmers dip sheep. They all had the dips sited right next to a stream/ditch so they could just pull out the plug and let it go. Everything looks fine as you can't see these small details

a few use to push the sh!t in to the river when it was to wet to get in the field, then they wondered why the restrictions testing nvz and all the rest come in, mind you cess pits from houses are a bloody sight worse imho

there are always buggers like that that ruin it for the rest in all walks of life

DrDunc · Feb 21, 2017

If British farming is so irrelevant to Joe Public, why do the likes of Tesco invent false farm branding to apply a premium price?

We are selling ourselves short if we accept the role of environmental green keeper instead of promoting what we are:

We produce food that every person on the planet needs, or they starve.

Environmental protection certainly plays a part in what we do, but let's promote that food production is our primary concern, and get the public to shun the quangos that take their taxes and produce nought.

Let's have some pride in what we do.

Yale · Feb 21, 2017

Henarar said:
there is far more to farming than just farmers and that will be found out if subs go, you can't take that sort of money away from farming and not make a difference, its all the businesses that rely on farming or partly rely on farming that want to worry, they would feel the biggest pinch, men in suits will be shown the door
lots of talk about farmers not looking after the countryside, well it looks fine around here, some sound like those on the telly when they want to do farming down, they shown film of bloody great fields of corn and talk about monoculture funny enough they don't show a film of our little valley

The worrying thing for rural areas is every pound not supporting farms will be diverted to urban areas.

This is a massive change of policy if it happens and disastrous for rural communities.

Hilly · Feb 21, 2017

topground said:
Subsidies don't keep food prices down, the market controls prices up or down with the laws of supply and demand. ( If you have a contrary view please set your reasons down clearly for the benefit of this Wurzel)
Subsidies are a means of pumping money into the rural economy to keep people in work both directly in agriculture and in the industries that support agriculture. Machinery dealers, the supply industry, hauliers etc and through that rural schools, shops, pubs and life in the sticks in general. All the while giving government control over land management.
Organisations like the rspb and National Trust must demonstrate that they are recyclng that money into the rural econmy in the way that I and other farmers do in order to draw the sub. Where do the higher echelons of these organisatins live? I suspect they are probably using that sub to pay high salaries to directors and hangers in most of whom I suspect are urban dwellers

They do, take subs away today watch the bankrupcys ! less produced and what is produced will be worth more so subs do keep prices down.

Goweresque · Feb 21, 2017

DrDunc said:
If British farming is so irrelevant to Joe Public, why do the likes of Tesco invent false farm branding to apply a premium price?

We are selling ourselves short if we accept the role of environmental green keeper instead of promoting what we are:

We produce food that every person on the planet needs, or they starve.

Environmental protection certainly plays a part in what we do, but let's promote that food production is our primary concern, and get the public to shun the quangos that take their taxes and produce nought.

Let's have some pride in what we do.

Farmers are no more food producers than a lumberjack makes furniture. They both produce a basic commodity that becomes something else eventually once its had a lot of value added along the line.

And basic commodities suffer from the same problem - they are mass produced, fungible, and easily transported. Add in farmings problem of having tens of millions of individual producers around the globe and you see the result - constant downward pressure on margins.

Just because everyone needs to eat will NOT mean farmers are going to be valued (and better paid) for what they do. Basic economics dictates otherwise.

topground · Feb 21, 2017

Hilly said:
They do, take subs away today watch the bankrupcys ! less produced and what is produced will be worth more so subs do keep prices down.

Not true, Famous quote from a Supermarket Chief Exec many years ago 'for every farmer that goes out of business there is another who thinks he can do better and will step in to produce more until he goes bust'
How do you think supermarkets have managed to maintain depressed prices over so many years?

Hilly · Feb 21, 2017

topground said:
Not true, Famous quote from a Supermarket Chief Exec many years ago 'for every farmer that goes out of business there is another who thinks he can do better and will step in to produce more until he goes bust'
How do you think supermarkets have managed to maintain depressed prices over so many years?

Imports, no sub here will decimate our home beef farmers, imports will rocket making food dear hence subs keep prices down.

brynseiri · Feb 21, 2017

czechmate said:
Another example from the "good old days", I helped several farmers dip sheep. They all had the dips sited right next to a stream/ditch so they could just pull out the plug and let it go. Everything looks fine as you can't see these small details

I'm sorry, but the whole country polluted the environment in the days when you dipped sheep in rivers, there's pictures of Llandudno junction in the 1970's with old scrap cars, vans, oil drums, litter all floating in the Conwy river up to the shore. Aluminium works turned God knows what shyte into Conwy river. Raw sewage was just pumped out to sea off west shore in Llandudno via a long pipeline that is still there today, they never treated it at all. The whole of industry across the country was like that in the time you are talking of, and thankfully has turned a long corner. No one can get away with that now, not even farmers. Look for the shell oil film "the river must live" it showed post war German industry polluting rivers in the 1950's.

Goweresque · Feb 21, 2017

Hilly said:
Imports, no sub here will decimate our home beef farmers, imports will rocket making food dear hence subs keep prices down.

I thought imported beef was cheaper than UK production? Otherwise why is it imported? So why would the substitution of imports for UK produced beef mean prices rise in the shops? And if that did happen, why wouldn't UK production rise again to take advantage of the new high prices?

Hilly · Feb 21, 2017

Goweresque said:
I thought imported beef was cheaper than UK production? Otherwise why is it imported? So why would the substitution of imports for UK produced beef mean prices rise in the shops? And if that did happen, why wouldn't UK production rise again to take advantage of the new high prices?

You think if there is no home producers johnny foreigner is going to sell us his beef cheap, think again.

brynseiri · Feb 21, 2017

The other thing is, people repeat "we grow the best food to the best standards in the world" that is perfectly true, but what are the marketing bodies doing to sell this high quality produce globally? The pound is weak now, it should mean a bit more British farm produce on foreign tables no? The milk has gone up, correct me if I'm wrong, but is increased home milk demand not down to the weak pound making bringing powdered sh!t over from Europe a less attractive proposition for processors, as opposed to our milk being exported more?

Goweresque · Feb 21, 2017

Hilly said:
You think if there is no home producers johnny foreigner is going to sell us his beef cheap, think again.

Yes and if that happens whats to stop home producers starting up again? Or indeed the ones that manage to keep going increasing production? Its not like a factory being closed down and flattened. The land will still be there to be farmed if price make it viable.

The thing is no-one knows whether UK farming is viable or not, whether prices would rise or fall if subs go and production drops, whether input prices would drop or not, indeed whether it would become apparent that most of the benefit of subs has gone to anyone but farmers (ie landowners/input producers/support industries etc). All subsidies are doing right now are preserving an industry in aspic, everything can just tick along the same as always, because the drip drip of subsidy prevents any change. There could be a perfectly viable UK farming industry just waiting to emerge, but we'll never know while the subsidy drugs keep everything in a state of stultification.

Hilly · Feb 21, 2017

Goweresque said:
Yes and if that happens whats to stop home producers starting up again? Or indeed the ones that manage to keep going increasing production? Its not like a factory being closed down and flattened. The land will still be there to be farmed if price make it viable.

The thing is no-one knows whether UK farming is viable or not, whether prices would rise or fall if subs go and production drops, whether input prices would drop or not, indeed whether it would become apparent that most of the benefit of subs has gone to anyone but farmers (ie landowners/input producers/support industries etc). All subsidies are doing right now are preserving an industry in aspic, everything can just tick along the same as always, because the drip drip of subsidy prevents any change. There could be a perfectly viable UK farming industry just waiting to emerge, but we'll never know while the subsidy drugs keep everything in a state of stultification.

I agree and would go with stop all subs for all after brexit but id be in a minority, and i have my eye on not farming for a few years to ride the storm.

two-cylinder · Feb 21, 2017

No wot said:
In a nut shell, subs are going , this could be the sernario, pre Brexit 3-4 farmer's in a parish , post Brexit 1 farmer in 2- 3 parishes , you know what your accounts say , we 'vie all got some serious decision's to make

Around here there are many big farmers packing up, or down-sizing due the figures not stacking up.
It's not always cost effective to farm expensive rented land miles from your base.

czechmate · Feb 21, 2017

brynseiri said:
I'm sorry, but the whole country polluted the environment in the days when you dipped sheep in rivers, there's pictures of Llandudno junction in the 1970's with old scrap cars, vans, oil drums, litter all floating in the Conwy river up to the shore. Aluminium works turned God knows what shyte into Conwy river. Raw sewage was just pumped out to sea off west shore in Llandudno via a long pipeline that is still there today, they never treated it at all. The whole of industry across the country was like that in the time you are talking of, and thankfully has turned a long corner. No one can get away with that now, not even farmers. Look for the shell oil film "the river must live" it showed post war German industry polluting rivers in the 1950's.

So what you are saying, everyone used to pollute, including farmers. Then they were regulated and don't polute any more.
I think this was where I came in, farmers (along with everyone else) can't be trusted to self regulate.

czechmate · Feb 21, 2017

two-cylinder said:
Around here there are many big farmers packing up, or down-sizing due the figures not stacking up.
It's not always cost effective to farm expensive rented land miles from your base.

Confidence was on life support. Brexit switched it off.

The role of British farmers today

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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