The role of British farmers today

[two-cylinder]

If subsidies go and there are no environmental payments for mainstream farming, farmers should do just the bare minimum to survive, and not do any unpaid work that benefits the community- such as cutting hedges on the roadside.

 

[brynseiri]

So what you are saying, everyone used to pollute, including farmers. Then they were regulated and don't polute any more.
I think this was where I came in, farmers (along with everyone else) can't be trusted to self regulate.

There's no need for self regulation, 1. Governing bodies and local authorities enforce laws regarding pollution, SFP or not, and 2. It's so far in the past, people's attitudes have well and truly changed.

 

[czechmate]

There's no need for self regulation, 1. Governing bodies and local authorities enforce laws regarding pollution, SFP or not, and 2. It's so far in the past, people's attitudes have well and truly changed.

I suppose it depends on your age, as to how far in the past it seems

 

[Henarar]

Not true, Famous quote from a Supermarket Chief Exec many years ago 'for every farmer that goes out of business there is another who thinks he can do better and will step in to produce more until he goes bust'
How do you think supermarkets have managed to maintain depressed prices over so many years?

if land ends up going out of production it is true

 

[brynseiri]

I suppose it depends on your age, as to how far in the past it seems

Turn a sheep dip or slurry pit down the stream today, along with dumping a Bedford van in it, and see what happens to you !

 

[Kevtherev]

Turn a sheep dip or slurry pit down the stream today, along with dumping a Bedford van in it, and see what happens to you !

 

[bobk]

Turn a sheep dip or slurry pit down the stream today, along with dumping a Bedford van in it, and see what happens to you !

Biggest polluters are water companies , they're allowed to dump sh!t in to the streams .

 

[bobk]

Confidence was on life support. Brexit switched it off.

Brexit has been good so far... it won't last but now europes cash cow has gone the effects will trickle down .

 

[brynseiri]

Biggest polluters are water companies , they're allowed to dump sh!t in to the streams .

How?

 

[bobk]

How?

Over capacity

 

[brynseiri]

Over capacity

Only in storm conditions, and it's a big deal when it happens, reports and inspections. No one gets away with pollution today, they took crown immunity off the MOD, resulting in all of their sewage works having to be up to scratch, that was a contract I once worked on.

 

[czechmate]

Turn a sheep dip or slurry pit down the stream today, along with dumping a Bedford van in it, and see what happens to you !

Well it only seems yesterday to me I was sent to change the oil on a fleet of tractors on the verge next to the ditch to save arsing around with the sump oil. No biggy really, no harm done as such, untill everyone starts doing it. I would suggest this is much less common place now due to folk being scared of loosing some of their sub, rather than they have all turned into green bunny huggers

 

[Goweresque]

Only in storm conditions, and it's a big deal when it happens, reports and inspections. No one gets away with pollution today, they took crown immunity off the MOD, resulting in all of their sewage works having to be up to scratch, that was a contract I once worked on.

There is no big deal when the sewer that crosses my land overflows raw sewage out of the manholes into the nearby brook. Happens regularly (old cast iron pipes too small for modern flows, plus getting blocked with cooking fat), they send a jetter lorry and solve the blockage, not even a rap over the knuckles.

 

[brynseiri]

There is no big deal when the sewer that crosses my land overflows raw sewage out of the manholes into the nearby brook. Happens regularly (old cast iron pipes too small for modern flows, plus getting blocked with cooking fat), they send a jetter lorry and solve the blockage, not even a rap over the knuckles.

What water authority? Do you report them to the EA?

 

[brynseiri]

Well it only seems yesterday to me I was sent to change the oil on a fleet of tractors on the verge next to the ditch to save arsing around with the sump oil. No biggy really, no harm done as such, untill everyone starts doing it. I would suggest this is much less common place now due to folk being scared of loosing some of their sub, rather than they have all turned into green bunny huggers

It's not about bumming bunnies, it's about having morals, that 95% of people do. Why don't I drain oil into the drain in the yard? Just because it's an uncouth dirty thing to do, that makes a mess that Sod's law would bite me in the arse. Not keen on a prosecution either, which would surely happen.

 

[gone up the hill]

Our job is to produce food, anything else is secondary!

Ref the pollution argument, having BPS etc payments means two things, one it gives the Gov a carrot rather than a stick approach to dealing with it but most importantly having the subs gives farmers the cashflow position to be able to cover yards/ build larger slurry pits etc.

If 3 billion of subs a year are taken out of farmers businesses then investment in nearly every area of farming businesses will cease overnight!

 

[Goweresque]

What water authority? Do you report them to the EA?

Thames Water. EA were contacted, didn't want to know.

 

[brynseiri]

Thames Water. EA were contacted, didn't want to know.

I'll bet if it was your sewage they bloody would.

 

[brynseiri]

Our job is to produce food, anything else is secondary!

Ref the pollution argument, having BPS etc payments means two things, one it gives the Gov a carrot rather than a stick approach to dealing with it but most importantly having the subs gives farmers the cashflow position to be able to cover yards/ build larger slurry pits etc.

If 3 billion of subs a year are taken out of farmers businesses then investment in nearly every area of farming businesses will cease overnight!

3 billion, the banks would sh!t kittens, they (banks) are more powerful than anyone in this country, how much have they got tied up in agriculture related loans, mortgages, overdrafts and finance uk wide? If that figure was pulled overnight that loaned money would be instantly wiped off the map, as farms would be worthless, so repossession wouldn't work, as they couldn't sell anything for anywhere near what it's worth. The banks are in this as deep as all the other tag on to farming industries such as machinery dealers, merchants etc, who'll all have borrowed capital for expansion of premises etc. It would send the banks in to a crash, without doubt. Also, some of the most powerful people, politicians and corporations are farmers themselves, hence why traditionally farm land is a safe tax efficient investment for them. As if the likes of the royals (they're more influential than people think) and big business would let their investment end up worthless.

 

[Goweresque]

3 billion, the banks would sh!t kittens, they (banks) are more powerful than anyone in this country, how much have they got tied up in agriculture related loans, mortgages, overdrafts and finance uk wide? If that figure was pulled overnight that loaned money would be instantly wiped off the map, as farms would be worthless, so repossession wouldn't work, as they couldn't sell anything for anywhere near what it's worth. The banks are in this as deep as all the other tag on to farming industries such as machinery dealers, merchants etc, who'll all have borrowed capital for expansion of premises etc. It would send the banks in to a crash, without doubt. Also, some of the most powerful people, politicians and corporations are farmers themselves, hence why traditionally farm land is a safe tax efficient investment for them. As if the likes of the royals (they're more influential than people think) and big business would let their investment end up worthless.

£3bn is chicken feed to the banks. Seriously. RBS just set aside that amount on its own to pay fines for miss-selling bonds in the US. Total lending to the agricultural sector in the UK is somewhere around £18bn in total, if they foreclosed on everyone, and failed to recoup a penny (when in reality they'd get most if not all of it back) that would be less than they've had to pay out over PPI compensation (about £37bn and counting), and that didn't break the banks did it?

I'm afraid farmers think farming is far more important to the UK economy than it really is. We could all down tools tomorrow and in economic terms no-one would hardly notice, we are that irrelevant.