they can't do without food though
anyone that don't hold a value to food can go without
The role of British farmers today
- Thread starter brynseiri
- Start date
anyone that don't hold a value to food can go without
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
I'll sell you some beef
And oh, Arn't you short of straw? Funny I was worried about getting a price to finish the season, got a quote yesterday and it's actually down on last year
I'll sell you some beef
Fine , we're paying €4.20 you ship .
It's not as easy as that if 25% of uk production was lost, it would take years to replace, you do understand the birds and the bees..... it takes time to get a animal to kill weights. We don't have a stash of animal ready for killing, if prices rise, not if a big part of our production base is crushed by cheap imports.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
See post above - entire contribution of farming to UK GDP is £8-9bn, or less than half a percentage point.
Figures here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...5418/agriaccounts-tiffstatsnotice-1dec16b.pdf
An estimate from DEFRA .. load of bollox
Revenue from tourism to the countryside is more than that .
That may be farmings income in GDP but it's not farming contribution, to all sectors of the uk. We spend far more than we get in profit.
- Location
- East Sussex
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
Its what is known as GVA, Gross Value Added. Its how GDP is calculated. Just because you're spending X does not mean that you are adding X to the value of the economy.
Face it, farming in the UK is a) not very big, b) not very efficient (for example there is more employment in farming (over 400K) than in food manufacturing (just under 400K, yet food manufacturing adds 3 times the value that farming does), and c) is not a growing sector - GVA dropped by over 1bn from 2014 to 2015.
Farmers live in a little bubble, and outside it is a very big world, far bigger and more important than them.
brynseiri
Member
- Location
- Conwy, North Wales
The writing was on the wall as soon as he slithered from under his rock
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
So your saying they factor in every penny farmers earn and spend, and it is not over 9 billion, think again. There are whole sectors of industry that only exist to support farmers, fertiliser, chemical, machinery, agro engineering.
what would the net result of all subs going all over the world to farmers, and free trade, no barriers what do you think?
For me we would see one of 2 things.
1. Farmers going out of business, followed by food shortages followed by the price of food going through the roof. People starve.
2. Farmers getting proper jobs, and food going into short supply and going through the roof. Only if there is a profit to be made do farmers grow a crop.
Then what happens is farmers start to produce but as it can take a year to grow a crop, we see food prices bouncing up and down. The only way to keep food prices stable is to keep them in over supply. That's only good for the consumers not farmers.
After a while food prices would settle as they increase to a level that's profitable to grow them, net result the public pay farmers a fair price for there produce and we are all happy. The problem is the fallout from how we gets to that point.
But that still doesn't help uk farmers unless prices rise to uk production cost levels.
The uk then is a net importer of food, so food shortages effect us more as we also have to cover the cost of transported to the uk, over and above food price jumps. The only way to protect your self from these things is to over produce food then compensate farmers for prices being below cost of production.
Subs may not be world wide but a great proportion of world food production is supported by it, this is holding food in oversupply so is reducing food prices, if farmers cannot make a living without subs in half the world, that means that half the worlds food prices are artificially low.
I also don't like the fact people say we will just import food as it's cheaper, one of the reasons it's cheaper is the farmer is given a pittance for it, so what your really saying is we want to keep treating foreign farmers badly so we can have cheap food, at no point does it cross your minds to just pay a fair price for your food, so uk farmers can produce it without subs.
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
I repeat, money spent is not value added. If you spend £100 to get £101 in sales, you've added £1 of value not £100.
And if you cared to peruse the figures I linked to you will see that the entire gross output of UK farming (ie value of everything sold, crops and livestock) is £25bn. Not £100bn as you suggested. Out of that £25bn in receipts, farmer pay out about £16bn in costs, leaving the £9bn in net value added. Thats it, in black and white. If you don't believe it go and take it up with the Office of National Statistics that you think they are undervaluing the contribution of the farming sector to the UK economy by a factor of 10.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Fair trade
brynseiri
Member
- Location
- Conwy, North Wales
I think you mean "her"
Arthur Scargill has since been exposed as being in the pay of the ussr at the time of the strikes.
Clever Dic
Member
- Location
- Melton
Nothing is as bad as it first seems I always think. Yes a major cut back in farm support however done will be painful but no government is going to allow the total decimation of agriculture, it will go leaner but there will be enough encouragement to not allow wholesale collapse as should an event occur that threatens our food security and the public see an opportunity to blame government for this they will.
Consequently enough life support will be available to ensure the engine can be restarted.
I personally struggle with the idea of subsidy. When Leyland or British coal were asking for it I thought " well free market laws should apply get profitable or close "
Now elements within farming say agriculture must be a special case and get this help , my guess most never blinked at the closing of the mines and cheap Aussie coal.
Does an upland area or any area deserve to be in business if all profit is derived by subsidy ?
Keep stating agriculture is special is not really the answer . Maybe the money would be better spent on energy security as without this there is no food anyway.
There will be changes but there will always people prepared to take up the challenge of agriculture in the geographical areas where it's meant to be.
Consequently enough life support will be available to ensure the engine can be restarted.
I personally struggle with the idea of subsidy. When Leyland or British coal were asking for it I thought " well free market laws should apply get profitable or close "
Now elements within farming say agriculture must be a special case and get this help , my guess most never blinked at the closing of the mines and cheap Aussie coal.
Does an upland area or any area deserve to be in business if all profit is derived by subsidy ?
Keep stating agriculture is special is not really the answer . Maybe the money would be better spent on energy security as without this there is no food anyway.
There will be changes but there will always people prepared to take up the challenge of agriculture in the geographical areas where it's meant to be.