Small Dairy Farmers Scheme.

Sid · Apr 23, 2017

Kingofgrass said:
What rubbish,I hope you all get as much as you can but make it all fair for all!

I'm sorry to break the bad news but life isn't fair. Larger farms get more support even though they are "more efficient " how can that be fair? You work and pay taxes but don't get free prescriptions, don't work and you do, how can that be fair?
Thats life.

Kingofgrass · Apr 23, 2017

Sid said:
I'm sorry to break the bad news but life isn't fair. Larger farms get more support even though they are "more efficient " how can that be fair? You work and pay taxes but don't get free prescriptions, don't work and you do, how can that be fair?
Thats life.

How do they?you build your business how you want it,to the size you want it.bigger doesn't always mean more efficient but relying on handouts etc you'll be left behind!

Beef farmer · Apr 23, 2017

The year in question is when we started milking, without looking I'm fairly sure I'm eligible.

Sid · Apr 23, 2017

Kingofgrass said:
How do they?you build your business how you want it,to the size you want it.bigger doesn't always mean more efficient but relying on hands out etc you'll be left behind!

They get a larger cheque as they have more acres. They had a larger payment under the last dairy scheme. Plenty big uns round here that make less money that they get in BPS.
I agree bigger isn't always more efficient.
Hand outs, i applied for a grant for my robots , I've had Ffis and csf money BUT only because the grant was there for what my business needed not because there was a grant avaliable. Make a business decision then see if you can get help.

Kingofgrass · Apr 23, 2017

Sid said:
They get a larger cheque as they have more acres. They had a larger payment under the last dairy scheme. Plenty big uns round here that make less money that they get in BPS.
I agree bigger isn't always more efficient.
Hand outs, i applied for a grant for my robots , I've had Ffis and csf money BUT only because the grant was there for what my business needed not because there was a grant avaliable. Make a business decision then see if you can get help.

So your relation to bigger farms get more support is rubbish it's all the same,so much an acre,grants are grants if ur lucky to drop on them.as to life isnt fair don't most farmers no it,but a small dairy farmer say under 1milion litres on a tesco contract for example never had the crash of the milk price like the others will still get a hand out! So "they get a larger cheque" yeah they do,but they've built the business up or their family have in the good times so why shouldn't it be fair to all dairy farmers?

supercow · Apr 23, 2017

That payout where guys that averaged 14pence is getting 2000 less than the guys that averaged 25pence, not exactly fair either! Government obviously trying to make themselves feel better by saying they are helping farmers. At least this money is for farmers still in production, the last 15 years guys have gotten hundreds of thousands for not farming for what they produced in year 2000, how is that fair?! Don't know about other processors but the difference between 1 million and 2 litres is something like a penny with first milk I think, so the larger producers get rewarded every year routinely for expanding and investing. I agree tho, these guys are sitting on millions worth assets it's pocket money for some of the smaller guys even tho they are small producers

Sid · Apr 23, 2017

Kingofgrass said:
So your relation to bigger farms get more support is rubbish it's all the same,so much an acre,grants are grants if ur lucky to drop on them.as to life isnt fair don't most farmers no it,but a small dairy farmer say under 1milion litres on a tesco contract for example never had the crash of the milk price like the others will still get a hand out! So "they get a larger cheque" yeah they do,but they've built the business up or their family have in the good times so why shouldn't it be fair to all dairy farmers?

Of course its not the same. You tell the average person on the street that someone with 1000 acres gets £71000 or the smallest gets £2500. Who actually needs it?
If someone makes a decision who they supply with their milk how can the RPA tell? Its a payment to support smaller producers for whatever reason. We had the last support payment even though being organic our milk price didn't drop through the floor but i didn't see any conventional producers offering any help when the organic market crashed.

upnortheast · Apr 23, 2017

Princess Pooper said:
Pretty unusual for England to apply for something for its farmers it's usually Scotland or Wales.

Think I read of a Scottish scheme last week based on ppl

Headless chicken · Apr 23, 2017

Princess Pooper said:
Pretty unusual for England to apply for something for its farmers it's usually Scotland or Wales.

It always feels like it's the other way

don't get me wrong I'm not bitter by any means about it I just can't understand the segregation of it all considering we are all supposedly part of the same bigger picture

gone up the hill · Apr 23, 2017

Totally wrong that dairy farmers are getting a Third hand out from taxpayers, especially when the dairy sector is the only one demanding that subs go post brexit.. ironic really!!

No other sector gets hand outs like this and not sure why dairy is a special case tbh.

Milk price must be decent as around here most herds are now expanding, two of 140 and 240 cows are expanding by 100 and 140 head with sheds going up for them or about to go up.

@exmoor dave,

Headless chicken · Apr 23, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Totally wrong that dairy farmers are getting a Third hand out from taxpayers, especially when the dairy sector is the only one demanding that subs go post brexit.. ironic really!!

No other sector gets hand outs like this and not sure why dairy is a special case tbh.

Milk price must be decent as around here most herds are now expanding, two of 140 and 240 cows are expanding by 100 and 140 head with sheds going up for them or about to go up.

@exmoor dave,

I beg to differ. Milk is marginal so they expand of die

William Mellor · Apr 23, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Totally wrong that dairy farmers are getting a Third hand out from taxpayers, especially when the dairy sector is the only one demanding that subs go post brexit.. ironic really!!

No other sector gets hand outs like this and not sure why dairy is a special case tbh.

Milk price must be decent as around here most herds are now expanding, two of 140 and 240 cows are expanding by 100 and 140 head with sheds going up for them or about to go up.

@exmoor dave,

I'm not demanding subs go post brexit, it will be make or break if they do! Larger producers get paid more on volume, smaller producers get heavily penalised for producing less and both larger and small get told to produce more. Quite frankly if I'm being offered money if I apply I'd be a fool not to take it. Remember there is still a lot of producers (mainly small) quiting milk production because of the last 2-3 years of unfair prices and as @Sid has already said life is unfair

Chips · Apr 23, 2017

Given volume bonuses this amount still won't level the playing field

Princess Pooper · Apr 23, 2017

Before the FFIS was taken back in hand it was administered by the old RDAs in England. I had a row with EMDA (East Mids Development Agency) because they could not see the inequity in setting a MINIMUM grant amount of I think £30,000, which was a 30% grant. They couldn't understand that for us, with milk sales of around £120k they were expecting us to commit to spend £90k on eligible items which was an enormous amount. We had to cobble together about 5 different projects - cluster flushes, parlour matting, shed ventilation improvements, heat detection collars etc and get 3 quotes for each which took ages. We were still waiting for a third quote for the shed work when the scheme was pulled at short notice, so what a waste of our time. An example of how the scales are weighed against us. They just didn't get it. And then they criticise smaller herds for not being efficient when they were not really helping us compared with the big boys were they?

For a big herd it was easy to get to those levels of expenditure with a couple of projects.

When Defra re-launched the scheme it was much more sensible and we were able to apply for much smaller amounts - 2 years later.

Cowmangav · Apr 23, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Totally wrong that dairy farmers are getting a Third hand out from taxpayers, especially when the dairy sector is the only one demanding that subs go post brexit.. ironic really!!

No other sector gets hand outs like this and not sure why dairy is a special case tbh.

Milk price must be decent as around here most herds are now expanding, two of 140 and 240 cows are expanding by 100 and 140 head with sheds going up for them or about to go up.

@exmoor dave,

That's a bit ironic in my case. My farm is 100% LFA for which we have never had a penny - because we are in dairying.

gone up the hill · Apr 23, 2017

William Mellor said:
I'm not demanding subs go post brexit, it will be make or break if they do! Larger producers get paid more on volume, smaller producers get heavily penalised for producing less and both larger and small get told to produce more. Quite frankly if I'm being offered money if I apply I'd be a fool not to take it. Remember there is still a lot of producers (mainly small) quiting milk production because of the last 2-3 years of unfair prices and as @Sid has already said life is unfair

I don't blame you for claiming it if you can but there are a lot of very big dairy farmers at every meeting going about Brexit and they all pipe up and say they want direct subs to go yet these same farmers will be the ones that are then on the other hand pushing for schemes such as the last two and this one, which thus makes a complete nonsense of them demanding that direct payments should go.

If dairy farmers need these payments then its quite clear that if anything these large dairy farmers should be demanding that direct payments should stay for all sectors.

Makes me laugh when people on here want subs to go yet cant get the claim forms for this money fast enough, imo if you feel subs should go then you should not be claiming any free payments that keep coming along for the dairy sector.

Cowmangav · Apr 23, 2017

gone up the hill said:
I don't blame you for claiming it if you can but there are a lot of very big dairy farmers at every meeting going about Brexit and they all pipe up and say they want direct subs to go yet these same farmers will be the ones that are then on the other hand pushing for schemes such as the last two and this one, which thus makes a complete nonsense of them demanding that direct payments should go.

If dairy farmers need these payments then its quite clear that if anything these large dairy farmers should be demanding that direct payments should stay for all sectors.

Makes me laugh when people on here want subs to go yet cant get the claim forms for this money fast enough, imo if you feel subs should go then you should not be claiming any free payments that keep coming along for the dairy sector.

I don't see in what sense " free payments keep coming along for the dairy sector". The current Scottish scheme is using money left over from the production reduction scheme. The price falls in the dairy sector have been exceptional.

cornishfarmer · Apr 23, 2017

Cowmangav said:
I don't see in what sense " free payments keep coming along for the dairy sector". The current Scottish scheme is using money left over from the production reduction scheme. The price falls in the dairy sector have been exceptional.

Not sure if that's correct, think it is a secondary part of the same scheme.

exmoor dave · Apr 23, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Totally wrong that dairy farmers are getting a Third hand out from taxpayers, especially when the dairy sector is the only one demanding that subs go post brexit.. ironic really!!

No other sector gets hand outs like this and not sure why dairy is a special case tbh.

Milk price must be decent as around here most herds are now expanding, two of 140 and 240 cows are expanding by 100 and 140 head with sheds going up for them or about to go up.

@exmoor dave,

Ummmm....... as a hill billy sheep and beef farmer....... why have I been tagged in a dairy thread?
Is there a question here somewhere GUTH? :scratchhead:

gone up the hill · Apr 23, 2017

exmoor dave said:
Ummmm....... as a hill billy sheep and beef farmer....... why have I been tagged in a dairy thread?
Is there a question here somewhere GUTH?

Yep as you have quite a bit of influence locally at NFU level, so when your attending the Brexit meetings and a dairy farmer pipes up that direct subs should be scrapped you can both remind them of all the extra handouts they have had/ are getting and also ask them if they have claimed any payments from these last three schemes as a dairy farmer!

Small Dairy Farmers Scheme.

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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