Is osr really worth it ?

Clive · Apr 1, 2013

It's not just one bad year

We have good years and bad years with osr - there is no denying its inconsistency, it certainly is getting a lot more expensive to grow every year

I feel too many talk about their 5t/ha yields and ignore the bad bits or bad years that in reality take the shine of this crops multi year average gross margin

Input suppliers have got greedy with it do a failure is an expensive proposition that knock a big hole in the margin

Maybe some of those with failed crops this year would care to share how much they have wasted over the last 6months ? I reckon a good year next year might just put them back to a no loss situation

Clive · Apr 1, 2013

whitefox said:
so what is this more reliabe spring cropping and if they are so reliable WHY havent you been growing them before now?

Not sure about more consistent however there are plenty that offer significantly lower financial risk !

B R C · Apr 1, 2013

Clive said:
I wonder how many less ac of WW would have been lost to slugs this year if they were not in the WW/ SR rotation ?

An awful lot Clive. I am in my second year of growing OSR, previously none of it has EVER had slug pellets on it. In my mind anyone who grows OSR should be putting the cost of pellets and application costs from every acre on the farm against the OSR crop. I wonder what the margins would be then, after hearing the horrendous amounts of pellets being used I guess this would change the figures somewhat. I was planning a WW/OSR/WW/Oats/WW/OSR/WW/SpBeans so 1 in 4 OSR, this is fine for a decent long term yield average I think but will still lead to slug issues. I think WW/OSR/WW/SpBeans/WW/Oats would be better now for both yield of OSR, slug issues and having slightly more spring cropping. We have always grown oats and get on well with them and use all the straw. Spring cropping can only be a good thing in a rotation, and will feature more and more in peoples rotations as they discover they have unmanageable levels of blackgrass and declining yields of OSR. WW/OSR rotation is just short term profit taking with no thought for the future(fine for all those FBTs!).

Wombat · Apr 1, 2013

The damage to follow on wheat compounds the issues here, only have about 30 acres of osr but this year lost all the following wheat. The weather didn't help as things we're very wet but the slugs just butchered it despite drilling at 215kg/ha in Oct and reaching the limits on pellets the lot got knocked out in Feb and re drilled with Santiago. Even in the dry last year we lost a about 10% of the following wheat.

yellow belly · Apr 1, 2013

I have tried rape wheat rape several time in the last 25 years

gave up for different reasons in the banning of straw burning . then tried it with the high area payment
then low yealds low prices and high costs, now slugs high costs and weed pressure (cranes bill and charlock)

so I am now only growing it 1 in 5 or 6 years using linseed, spring beans ( always give a higher margin than the bottom 1/3 of the the rape fields) may be winter beans and second wheats

imho all the slug problems on my farm all of the slug problems are as a result of osr so the true cost of rape is higher than

the trade do not like beans and linseed as they make no money from imputs no or very low n rates and cheap of patent chems for weed control and little fungicide
winter rape costs more than wheat in imputs

Brisel · Apr 1, 2013

I have spent many hours crunching the numbers on rotational gross margins for different crops. Even a mediocre crop of winter osr is more reliable than an average spring crop.

After 3 years of dry early springs & kind autumns winter osr regularly outperformed spring breaks, plus it helped with harvest & autumn logistics in the absence of winter barley. Spring cropping is very heavily dependent on good spring growing conditions for good performance, plus it isn't an option for a big % on heavy land unless you have massive drilling capacity.

The folks growing the break crop splits of half winter osr half spring break are spreading thier risks well IMHO. That wouldn't suit me as I grow a big spring malting barley area but I have reduced the winter osr area from 33% to 25%, having gone from WW/SpB/WOSR to WW/SpB/WB/WOSR, mostly for logisitcal reasons.

If we lose Kerb, Crawler & metaldehyde then that might be the end of winter osr for me. No grass weed or easy slug control would make winter rape unviable IMHO.

SilliamWhale · Apr 1, 2013

Fred said:
We have just had this conversation , at the moment we are ww,wosr,ww,wosr, ww,spring beans , we arechanging to ww, spring wheat ,osr,ww, spring beans
we have 22 bangers out,

Rape is making all of us miserable .

its been in the ground for 7 months and is just existing

good luck getting the rape in after SW.

Also if you boys stop growing rape what about the British biofuels industry

RBM · Apr 1, 2013

Brisel said:
I have spent many hours crunching the numbers on rotational gross margins for different crops. Even a mediocre crop of winter osr is more reliable than an average spring crop.

After 3 years of dry early springs & kind autumns winter osr regularly outperformed spring breaks, plus it helped with harvest & autumn logistics in the absence of winter barley. Spring cropping is very heavily dependent on good spring growing conditions for good performance, plus it isn't an option for a big % on heavy land unless you have massive drilling capacity.

The folks growing the break crop splits of half winter osr half spring break are spreading thier risks well IMHO. That wouldn't suit me as I grow a big spring malting barley area but I have reduced the winter osr area from 33% to 25%, having gone from WW/SpB/WOSR to WW/SpB/WB/WOSR, mostly for logisitcal reasons.

If we lose Kerb, Crawler & metaldehyde then that might be the end of winter osr for me. No grass weed or easy slug control would make winter rape unviable IMHO.

Losing kerb and crawler would mean we wouldn't be in a position to plant osr on a percentage of our total ground because of blackgrass, so if that did come through then that area in the rotation would have to change.

Brisel · Apr 1, 2013

SilliamWhale said:
Also if you boys stop growing rape what about the British biofuels industry

What British biodiesel industry? Is any made here or does it all come over from the continent? Stuff the bio industry. It is already proposed to cap the inclusion rate minimum at 5% & abandon the 10% rate.

No bio in my diesel, thank God. All marine grade from Fawley refinery near Southampton.

hindmaist · Apr 1, 2013

I was always told that you shouldnt grow a brassica more than one year in seven.

franklin · Apr 1, 2013

hindmaist said:
I was always told that you shouldnt grow a brassica more than one year in seven.

Better tell that to those growing continuous brassicas in the fens then.

Baling Hay · Apr 1, 2013

From a mixed farm viewpoint I reckon 3 years of grass WW/ cover crop and spring oats / ww back to grass would be hard to beat. I HATE osr!

Davos · Apr 1, 2013

Looked at some Wintalin winter linseed today and was amazed at how hardy the plants seemed to be.Some of the Rape ,as I have said on other threads has been knocked due to the weather .Linseed looks to be ok but I don't know the gross and net profit on this.Just to say that when 20%+ Rape has not survived on this farm ,the Linseed seems to have done.

Elmsted · Apr 2, 2013

Jim Bullock said:
Winter rape was a great crop (in the eighties) when we drilled it after winter barley (which is not now grown in this part of the UK as there is no market for it)or Soisson wheat... 17:17:17 in the seed bed combine drilled .... had a splash of Fusilade to clear up any barley(wheat) volunteers and perhaps the odd black-grass plant... a dose of Kerb in November/December....then 185 ks (150 units) of Nitram in March...shut the gate until July when it was sprayed off with Reglone....combined... and anything less than 3.75 tons/ha(30cwt/acre) was a disaster... Happy days!
I am sure slugs did not eat single low varieties like they do most of the double low types we have to grow today...perhaps our soils were more fertile than they are today....but we were burning the straw in those days which might just have help with winter OSR establishment..

Jim

The foisting of double lows upon growers by food compounders aided and abbeted by crushers. Put OSR back at least 15 - 20 years. Just look at yeild data. yes single low much more resistant to wildlife be that Deer, Boar, slugs. Much greater take up of Sulphur. And given Sulphur now an issue due to lack of pollution, more inputs for double low.

But with the tall varieties swathing I found easier. As on a visit a few years ago to KPA's place when found a single low growing on headland Keiths chap, my self remember you could make tunnels in the stuff with a roof over the top. More types of rape now grown not all are as bad in vigour as some or have higher Euric acid contents.

smbflame · Apr 2, 2013

I totally agree on whats being saíd .my wheat after rape was wiped out to slugs dont get me wrong made serious money out of rape well so I thought (whole farm is alive eith slugs)from rape let's face it rape was always a break crop ? Then bio healthy eating. We all eat the carrot I for one. On my farm ive having to go back to ploughing to dry soil out then one pass combination. Ive always thought its getting high risk and generally harder to grow crops on marginal land . goodluck.

franklin · Apr 2, 2013

I think the notion of something being a "break crop" is now outdated. 1st wheats dont perform as well if grown every 2nd year as to every third year either. It points to the need for a longer and wider rotation. Take-all in cereals is, to my mind, much more controllable than rampant slugs every year. And take-all is more able to be controlled with cultural methods rather than chemicals.

Elmsted · Apr 2, 2013

Just a query any body found slug problems after growing Mustard maybe as cover crop. Clive do let us know. Or any one else.

Brisel · Apr 2, 2013

static said:
I think the notion of something being a "break crop" is now outdated. 1st wheats dont perform as well if grown every 2nd year as to every third year either. It points to the need for a longer and wider rotation. Take-all in cereals is, to my mind, much more controllable than rampant slugs every year. And take-all is more able to be controlled with cultural methods rather than chemicals.

I agree with most of this, but not all.

My best 1st wheats have not been behind osr, but vegetables (high N residues & grade 1 soil help!), linseed, sugar beet seed & pulses (especially vining peas which don't leave a lot of soil N). Quite why this is I don't know as it is always early sown 1st wheat usually into good seedbeds - more nutrient lockup by the osr straw & rotting volunteers perhaps?

Take all's main control is a combination of rotation & good soil structure. Barley only holds take all, it doesn't reduce it. Non cereals are a "break" but only if grass weeds & volunteers are well controlled.

Brisel · Apr 2, 2013

Elmsted said:
Just a query any body found slug problems after growing Mustard maybe as cover crop. Clive do let us know. Or any one else.

I haven't grown it myself so can't verify this, but general opinion is that it does deter slugs well, especially if it is properly mulched into the soil as though it is a biofumigant. Potato growers near me used to swear by it, especially the heavier land ones who grew Maris Piper which seems to attract the little blighters like a cowpat attracts flies...

I did one of my BASIS modules with a grower who supplied Colmans with mustard seed from heavyish land in Cambs. Never had any slug problems afterwards.

Clive · Apr 2, 2013

Elmsted said:
Just a query any body found slug problems after growing Mustard maybe as cover crop. Clive do let us know. Or any one else.

Have never grown osr directly after mustard cover but land we have had mustard twice in the last 5 years had no slug pellets and has a decent crop of ww on it right now ??

hindmaist · Apr 2, 2013

Steakeater said:
From a mixed farm viewpoint I reckon 3 years of grass WW/ cover crop and spring oats / ww back to grass would be hard to beat. I HATE osr!

Mixed farms are,of course,the answer to an awful lot of problems.But hard to re-introduce for most.How about 3 yrs grass,WB (stubble turnips) spring oats WW back to grass ?

hindmaist · Apr 2, 2013

static said:
Better tell that to those growing continuous brassicas in the fens then.

I wasn't aware of this practise.Is it common and how do they deal with clubroot ? I know you can grow brassica two years in a row but always assumed you'd have to leave it for a long break thereafter.I've also heard that clubroot isnt a problem as long as a brassica isnt in the ground on the longest day.Hence why stubble turnips can be grown every year after spring barley.I've never seen this published,though.

Is osr really worth it ?

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