Where did my steak come from.

DrWazzock · Jul 19, 2017

It's another matter, but what traceability got to do with red tractor?

We must tag our cattle with individual ID number from the government maintained database by law. So the traceability is there from birth to the time it goes for slaughter right the way through the farming side of the system, Red Tractor or no Red Tractor. The fact the supermarkets can't seem to show indivual animal ID on packs on the shelves is matter for them are their processor suppliers. I am not saying it's even a necessary requirement but it's not the farmers fault that it doesn't happen.

7610 super q · Jul 19, 2017

FarmyStu said:
This thread seems to be demanding MORE traceability! Couldn't agree more. It's the whole reason that whole life assurance is the only assurance. None of this 90 day tosh.

The sooner its brought in the better and I'll write to my MP off the back of feeling in this thread to demand it.

Yes sir, farmystu sir !!, We'll have those extra boxes ticked in a jiffy sir !!!!

Derrick Hughes · Jul 19, 2017

The rump

llamedos · Jul 19, 2017

Forage Trader said:
The rump

Do you work for RT

FarmyStu · Jul 19, 2017

You're all right of course. FA is a waste of time as are trading standards checks and other government inspections. Every farmer should be trusted to provide produce of the highest standards and all be paid exactly the same amount for it. Any bad apples would be weeded out by other farmers in a matter of days and sent packing.

That at least is the mindset that comes across on these threads. I don't go along with it for a second. Due to past and present farm visits and to simply using Google:

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...ers-after-meat-sandwiches-fed-to-pigs.181990/

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/failed-mold-farmer-banned-six-12669170

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmers-convicted-of-welfare-and-environment-breaches.htm

http://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/Legal_...r_animal_welfare_offences_(27_June_2017).html

http://www.cornwalllive.com/calling...t-conviction/story-30365888-detail/story.html

http://www.chewvalleygazette.co.uk/...are conviction&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2016

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/g...tock-farmer-who-caused-unnecessary-suffering/

https://news.surreycc.gov.uk/2016/0...n-suspended-jail-sentence-for-animal-cruelty/

https://www.daera-ni.gov.uk/news/farmer-receives-suspended-sentence

http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/English/Resident/News/Pages/Animal-Welfare-Prosecution.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36027593

Now I don't for a second think that TFF contributors would be involved in anything like any of the above and would find it as shocking as the next person. But do not assume that other farmers work to the same standards as you. I've never come across welfare cases as bad as the above but have still come across them. What I have come across regularly are a casual disregard for any sort of tagging (sheep and cattle), record keeping or attempt to comply with any disease control measures. As far as I know, government inspections cover around 3% of farmers per year. RT inspect 100% on a regular basis. That's why I'm in favour of FA. More specifically whole life FA. Without it, your RT assured steak/lamb/pork or poultry could have started life on one of the farms above. That cannot be right. To me that's much more important than the issue raised by the OP.

scholland · Jul 19, 2017

I have been on a Scotbeef tour and they claimed to be able to trace any meat cut to an individual animal and any minced product to one of 20 (I think). Individual tracibility seems a bit pointless if it isn't used to the end product.
http://www.qmscotland.co.uk/whole-chain-assurance

llamedos · Jul 19, 2017

FarmyStu said:
You're all right of course. FA is a waste of time as are trading standards checks and other government inspections. Every farmer should be trusted to provide produce of the highest standards and all be paid exactly the same amount for it. Any bad apples would be weeded out by other farmers in a matter of days and sent packing.

That at least is the mindset that comes across on these threads. I don't go along with it for a second. Due to past and present farm visits and to simply using Google:

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...ers-after-meat-sandwiches-fed-to-pigs.181990/

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/failed-mold-farmer-banned-six-12669170

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmers-convicted-of-welfare-and-environment-breaches.htm

http://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/Legal_...r_animal_welfare_offences_(27_June_2017).html

http://www.cornwalllive.com/calling...t-conviction/story-30365888-detail/story.html

http://www.chewvalleygazette.co.uk/article.cfm?id=101487&headline=Chew Stoke farmer banned from owning sheep after animal welfare conviction&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2016

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/g...tock-farmer-who-caused-unnecessary-suffering/

https://news.surreycc.gov.uk/2016/0...n-suspended-jail-sentence-for-animal-cruelty/

https://www.daera-ni.gov.uk/news/farmer-receives-suspended-sentence

http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/English/Resident/News/Pages/Animal-Welfare-Prosecution.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36027593

Now I don't for a second think that TFF contributors would be involved in anything like any of the above and would find it as shocking as the next person. But do not assume that other farmers work to the same standards as you. I've never come across welfare cases as bad as the above but have still come across them. What I have come across regularly are a casual disregard for any sort of tagging (sheep and cattle), record keeping or attempt to comply with any disease control measures. As far as I know, government inspections cover around 3% of farmers per year. RT inspect 100% on a regular basis. That's why I'm in favour of FA. More specifically whole life FA. Without it, your RT assured steak/lamb/pork or poultry could have started life on one of the farms above. That cannot be right. To me that's much more important than the issue raised by the OP.

So you think every farmer should be in a compulsory assurance scheme?

Henarar · Jul 19, 2017

FarmyStu said:
But RT state that their assured produce is assured from farm to fork. It is, but that statement only applies to the last few months of time on farm. It's all but indefensible as a statement of truth.

I know where the meat I eat has been from when it was born and before to when I go for a sh!t and I know what's been done to it. So that is far better than RT can do
But others eating it will have to take my word for it and they do but if it's not good enough for you and you want to call me a liar because I haven't got some leach sticking their nose in then you best stand in front of me when you do it

Henarar · Jul 19, 2017

llamedos said:
So you think every farmer should be in a compulsory assurance scheme?

Would that be so bad if it got rid of the prats that do it now and replaced them with some accountability

FarmyStu · Jul 19, 2017

llamedos said:
So you think every farmer should be in a compulsory assurance scheme?

No. But I think if you are in a scheme then that scheme needs to be robust and fit for purpose. You should also be better off than those that aren't in the scheme.

llamedos · Jul 19, 2017

Well, no steak tonight.

Cauliflower cheese, cauli came from lincs
Cheese came from Lancashire.
Milk came from Arla to make the sauce.

Safer all round I reckon, well at least less contentious - unless you supply a n other dairy

llamedos · Jul 19, 2017

FarmyStu said:
No. But I think if you are in a scheme then that scheme needs to be robust and fit for purpose. You should also be better off than those that aren't in the scheme.

Hmm - this is how this thread started.

FarmyStu · Jul 19, 2017

Henarar said:
I know where the meat I eat has been from when it was born and before to when I go for a sh!t and I know what's been done to it. So that is far better than RT can do
But others eating it will have to take my word for it and they do but if it's not good enough for you and you want to call me a liar because I haven't got some leach sticking their nose in then you best stand in front of me when you do it

It's great that you can eat meat that you can trace from birth to your mouth. I think consumers should also be offered this. Don't you?

Obviously they can't take the producers word for it. I doubt any of the farmers in the stories I posted above would be honest about conditions on their farms so independent verification would be required. A whole life assurance scheme perhaps?

caveman · Jul 19, 2017

llamedos said:
Well, no steak tonight.

Cauliflower cheese, cauli came from lincs
Cheese came from Lancashire.
Milk came from Arla to make the sauce.

Safer all round I reckon, well at least less contentious - unless you supply a n other dairy

Polish milk?

llamedos · Jul 19, 2017

caveman said:
Polish milk?

The cauli was probably not picked by a British national either, but non of the items assure me of anything other than they are what it says.
I am happy with that.

caveman · Jul 19, 2017

FarmyStu said:
It's great that you can eat meat that you can trace from birth to your mouth. I think consumers should also be offered this. Don't you?

Obviously they can't take the producers word for it. I doubt any of the farmers in the stories I posted above would be honest about conditions on their farms so independent verification would be required. A whole life assurance scheme perhaps?

And you think a WLA scheme would be free from abuse and fraud?
Get a life.

roscoe erf · Jul 19, 2017

FarmyStu said:
It's great that you can eat meat that you can trace from birth to your mouth. I think consumers should also be offered this. Don't you?

Obviously they can't take the producers word for it. I doubt any of the farmers in the stories I posted above would be honest about conditions on their farms so independent verification would be required. A whole life assurance scheme perhaps?

Independent verification hmmm
Defra
Animal health
Bcms
Trading standards

FarmyStu · Jul 19, 2017

caveman said:
And you think a WLA scheme would be free from abuse and fraud?
Get a life.

Nothing involving people is perfect. It's just some things are better than others. People break rules all the time. It's not a reason not to have rules. Otherwise we wouldn't bother with law.

FarmyStu · Jul 19, 2017

roscoe erf said:
Independent verification hmmm
Defra
Animal health
Bcms
Trading standards

But none of these have the resources to check every single farm on a regular basis. That's why they don't. I have in the past done record checks on farms that have told me they have never been inspected before. FA schemes paid for by producers/customers provide an answer.

roscoe erf · Jul 19, 2017

FarmyStu said:
But none of these have the resources to check every single farm on a regular basis. That's why they don't. I have in the past done record checks on farms that have told me they have never been inspected before. FA schemes paid for by producers/customers provide an answer.

Really must just be wales that does then

Where did my steak come from.

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