France to link food prices to farmers’ cost of production!!!

Kiwi Pete · Oct 21, 2017

Dave645 said:
so what do you call innovation in the food and farming industry? what innovations are subsidies stopping?
in this industry growing it cheaper is what's needed in a subsidy deliberate over supply world, if your not going to pay a farmer the price of current production. The only innovation worth anything to a farmer is make it cheaper to produce while maintaining the same price per unit.

To be real honest, Dave, the main innovation I can see strangled from way over here isn't necessarily the farmer's own innovation - it's the lack of necessity for much better marketing, cooperatives, sales pitch to the supermarkets etc etc.
(What I can do myself not everyone can do, I acknowledge that one..)
But, it's keeping the status quo working (sort of) and that's the problem as I see it.
Nothing needs to change because it's sort of doing the job.
That's my only opposition to it, at all!
It could be a hell of a lot more in favour of the farmer being rewarded, but it isnt.
It will need a big upset to force the sort of changes that are long overdue (IMO) because it's accepted as 'working well' for the industry - and you, the farmers look to be hurting

not the supermarkets, not the unions or the marketing boards etc.
I don't like that.
They should be feeling the pinch, but they have domestic production pants down over a saw-horse.

Money well spent.
The established guys are scared to change too much, and the new guy can't get in.

Dave645 · Oct 21, 2017

brigadoon said:
How does an area based subsidy encourage over supply?

It keeps land in production, that would other wise not be. Farmers still try to make a living no farmer starts the year and says I will do nothing and live of my sub, ( retired may do) but they tend to also rent their land out or others are farming it. If they want market demand to take over they need farmers to be honest and see what has a margin in it.

You have also got to note we are still in over supply, just see what happens to subs the moment we are even close to not. You will find production based ties will reappear very quickly. It may just comin by saying 100% of your land must be in production to claim your sub. This much of this type of production is needed to be a farmer.
What we have now is the EU best effort for letting the market re balance naturally, but the closer we get to under supply or shortages things will change fast.

Kiwi Pete · Oct 21, 2017

I have been studying industrial subsidy since a high school project - I must say that the irony is possibly the funniest part of this particular thread.
We had a system here - when mother Britain decided that the EEC was the next big thing, tata Commonwealth, and thanks;
Our farmer recovery was the SMP, Subsidised Minimum Price

Almost exactly what the OP is suggesting could be the next big thing for British food producers as the escape from Europe unfolds

Well, in little over a decade of SMP it had distorted the market to the degree that farming unproductive sheep appeared to be a more profitable land-use than kiwi fruit orchards, so be careful what you wish for!!!
I would love to know the stats now, as to what contributes what to the economy, but
I bet it isn't sheep with 3 lame feet and 1.02 lambs per year, compared to venison, velvet, apples, cherries, plums, nectarines, kiwifruit, apricots.....

unlacedgecko · Oct 21, 2017

Kiwi Pete said:
looking for opportunity

Do you want to hear about the kid that can sell a $100 dollar lamb to a farmer's wife for $225, chilled and on ice, in a cooler bag, with a jar of home-made mint jelly?
I sell about 30 per year at this stage - adding an extra $100+ per late-finishing lamb for an hours work, or less.
"Leeside Farm's Prime Lamb"
I even throw in a tub of fresh mushrooms if they want

I see opportunities everywhere... just as well their husbands are too busy farming to kill a hogget, eh?

You clever barsteward.

But don't go telling everyone, or they'll all do it. Then you're niche market won't be niche anymore, or so it is said...

Derrick Hughes · Oct 21, 2017

unlacedgecko said:
And how to go about buying land of you start from nothing?

you get a job . dad had 3 . a day one a night one and a spare time one

Danllan · Oct 21, 2017

Dave645 said:
... If DEFRA want to make saving they are looking at the wrong end of the system.

Not disagreeing with you regarding DEFRA as it stands, but it's only fair to bear in mind that until at least 2019 its hands are pretty much tied by the EU and the Treasury as to what it can / can't do. That's not to say it will make things any better after that, just that it doesn't have a great deal of room for manoeuvre now.

Bossfarmer · Oct 21, 2017

kiwi pom said:
So you'd swap with a Chinese farmer then?

So do you produce what the consumer wants? Have you a contract for anything you produce? or do you just do what you feel like and hope for a good price at the end?

yes i have contracts for malting barley, not worth the paper its written on this year thanks to the weather

Kiwi Pete · Oct 21, 2017

unlacedgecko said:
You clever barsteward.

But don't go telling everyone, or they'll all do it. Then you're niche market won't be niche anymore, or so it is said...

Go for it!
And, thanks, but to capitalise on the time-poor farmers, downing beer at the local pub, bragging about lamb weights is just....
At least they eat well!!

Bossfarmer · Oct 21, 2017

Kiwi Pete said:
They also don't worry about importing from other countries though, as they realise they can't keep up with demand.
Sure as eggs they don't all wait to be told what to do next, as seems to often be the cry on here
"Will someone pass the new rulebook"

Screw more interventionism and protectionism. You do what you always have, you get what you always get.

Sell flour, not milling wheat
Sell cheese, or ice cream, not raw milk
Sell meat in packets instead of trailers

Suddenly you are in control of what your income is.
Do you really think the company that supply nyloc nuts to Fendt expect to become rich because of a 'premium end product'?

Sell flour, not milling wheat
Sell cheese, or ice cream, not raw milk
Sell meat in packets instead of trailers

you are basically telling all the farmers to become shop keepers, are you aware of the dominance of uk supermarkets? we cannot compete with them long established shops cant consumers can buy anything there , to sell ice cream etc meat etc we need branding, we then need marketing, we need facilities to produce things and staff to pay and somewhere to sell it, unless your brand and marketing is both unique and in the top 1000% of producers you will loose money at this, a LOT of money

Bossfarmer · Oct 21, 2017

unlacedgecko said:
Unfortunately a couple of generations of subsidy have meant that UK farmers do just that.

What more proof is needed that subsidy stifles innovation?

Farming isn't about feeding the world. Global food production means that there are enough calories produced for every man woman and child on the planet to have 2000 per day.

It's economics which cause famine, not lack of production.

Farming is about running a profitable and sustainable business within whatever constraints you impose on yourself, be they geographic, economic or moral.

Edit; I hasten to add of course not all UK farmers are like this. There are some extremely progressive and forward thinking individuals. But subsidies mean there is a lack of economic pressure across the industry.

Farming isn't about feeding the world. ??????????????????????????? just because there is currently a surplus doesnt mean there will be tomorrow, producing food is vital were consuming pretty much whats produced globally the extra stocks are mainly held in china

brigadoon · Oct 21, 2017

Dave645 said:
It keeps land in production, that would other wise not be. Farmers still try to make a living no farmer starts the year and says I will do nothing and live of my sub, ( retired may do) but they tend to also rent their land out or others are farming it. If they want market demand to take over they need farmers to be honest and see what has a margin in it.t.

I see what you are driving at but I do not agree. The effect of the subsidy in the example you give is to keep someone calling themselves a farmer as opposed to a farm worker.

Assuming they are in fact making the best possible use of the land then that usage will continue whether they are there or not

I would hope that most are at least trying to maximise returns and if their farming activities are depressing their incomes one would hope that long term, sense would prevail.

7610 super q · Oct 21, 2017

And niche markets are just that. Growing thatching straw was mentioned earlier in the thread. An extra 500 acres grown would probably feck up the entire market.

Derrick Hughes · Oct 21, 2017

7610 super q said:
And niche markets are just that. Growing thatching straw was mentioned earlier in the thread. An extra 500 acres grown would probably feck up the entire market.

Free range Turkey's ?

Kiwi Pete · Oct 21, 2017

Bossfarmer said:
Sell flour, not milling wheat
Sell cheese, or ice cream, not raw milk
Sell meat in packets instead of trailers

you are basically telling all the farmers to become shop keepers, are you aware of the dominance of uk supermarkets? we cannot compete with them long established shops cant consumers can buy anything there , to sell ice cream etc meat etc we need branding, we then need marketing, we need facilities to produce things and staff to pay and somewhere to sell it, unless your brand and marketing is both unique and in the top 1000% of producers you will loose money at this, a LOT of money

Oh.
So why do supermarkets have such a stranglehold, nothing to do with landowners taking the King's Shilling for decades and letting them?
Why doesn't the union stand up for the farmer, because it doesn't need to?
That's exactly why, because the money is still there to keep everyone surviving and producing at all costs, even if at personal cost - producing food that isn't needed to be produced in the quantity it is.
This year the price will go up for grain and straw a little, because the season and harvest forced a production drop, but it will balance out.
The return will be about the same, that is how supply and demand is supposed to work.
Unless you fudge with it...

brigadoon · Oct 21, 2017

Bossfarmer said:
Sell flour, not milling wheat
Sell cheese, or ice cream, not raw milk
Sell meat in packets instead of trailers

you are basically telling all the farmers to become shop keepers, are you aware of the dominance of uk supermarkets? we cannot compete with them long established shops cant consumers can buy anything there , to sell ice cream etc meat etc we need branding, we then need marketing, we need facilities to produce things and staff to pay and somewhere to sell it, unless your brand and marketing is both unique and in the top 1000% of producers you will loose money at this, a LOT of money

You mean like Cream of Galloway or Rowan Glen?

Yes it's not easy but that does not mean that nothing can be done

7610 super q · Oct 21, 2017

Forage Trader said:
Free range Turkey's ?

Massive operation next door to me, as you know. Doing very well, but, what if another company starts up and tries to sell to M & S too ?

Kiwi Pete · Oct 21, 2017

brigadoon said:
You mean like Cream of Galloway or Rowan Glen?

Yes it's not easy but that does not mean that nothing can be done

Plenty of farmers in the world can find the ability to do exactly this.
It costs a hell of a lot less to set up a profit making enterprise than to buy out the neighbour and break even there too.

Kiwi Pete · Oct 21, 2017

Forage Trader said:
Free range Turkey's ?

Did they vote in or out?

hendrebc · Oct 21, 2017

brigadoon said:
Yes it's not easy but that does not mean that nothing can be done

Good attitude

Kiwi Pete · Oct 21, 2017

7610 super q said:
And niche markets are just that. Growing thatching straw was mentioned earlier in the thread. An extra 500 acres grown would probably feck up the entire market.

This depends on how you promote your thatch to a degree, but you're right.
We only made ice cream a few batches per year but it more than paid my wages...
So then you effectively have a dairy farm making a good profit plus free labour on top. Or free replacement stock, or free something else.
Much like my little butchery /welding shop /brewery /mushrooms and soon to be honey for sale, it all helps the bottom line- and as indicated most other folk haven't got the knowledge /inclination /skills /time to do it.
I'll let them feed the world for feck all, while I feed my community and family and repay my debt to the bank.

France to link food prices to farmers’ cost of production!!!

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