Calcium supplemeting ewes

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

Last couple of years been culling a lot of young ewes that had missing teeth at sorting for tupping time. After speaking to my vet about it were pretty sure its a calcium deficiency that the ewes have when they are milking well and using stored calcium from their skeleton to make milk for the lambs. Apparently the calcium in the bottom jaw is the easiest to mobilise so it goes soft and the teeth fall out.
Does anyone have any experience of this? How do i supplement calcium to them? Been advised to only offer them calcium after they have lambed and not before so bolusing (if a calcium bolus exists?) before lambing is out as is bolising after lambing because hopefully they will be lambing outside. Ive seen limestone flour for sale as a calcium supplement but not sure if sheep will eat it on its own? I have seen salt blocks with calcium in them too that might be worth a look. Anything else to consider?

GTB · Jan 16, 2018

Are your mag levels too high in the soil? Maybe you've been using mag limes for many years?

lazy farmer · Jan 16, 2018

you need evidence from soil and grass samples before you can make good decisions.

llamedos · Jan 16, 2018

Would it not be lack of cal/phos in the growing lambs showing effect later on.

JD-Kid · Jan 16, 2018

ummmm intresting
we are low in Ca
there are things that lead to a lack of Ca one thing being low in Ca also boron will have an efect in the amount of Ca in plants
mag and other things can lead to probs
we inject Vit E which lack of boron can lead to some probs in Ca /P in animals
there is also talk of checking bone denstey in sheep so more Ca storage in animals ..
do you get any other bone related probs
also what breed of sheep lambing % etc etc

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

No lime has been used here in probably 30 years i dont know if it was mag lime or not.
I have some soil tests from a few years ago ill try and find them.
These are lleyn ewes scan about 170%ish and all the ewes affected are the smaller ones with big udders at shearing ( i went through them then this year to get a look earlier) and all have twins the singles are unaffected the bigger twin ewes were generally fine as well. They are 6 tooth onwards but if they make ut to full mouth they are usually ok after that.
Ive never noticed any difference in the lambs.
The vet thought it might be that they were just deficient when they were milking a lot and as soon as they dried up they were getting enough calcium again and thats why we didnt have any skeletal problems.
Oddly this never happened when we used to feed a lot of cake only when we moved to a more forage based diet for the ewes. It seems they were getting enough calciun from the sheep nuts when we were feeding heavily.

JD-Kid · Jan 16, 2018

hendrebc said:
No lime has been used here in probably 30 years i dont know if it was mag lime or not.
I have some soil tests from a few years ago ill try and find them.
These are lleyn ewes scan about 170%ish and all the ewes affected are the smaller ones with big udders at shearing ( i went through them then this year to get a look earlier) and all have twins the singles are unaffected the bigger twin ewes were generally fine as well. They are 6 tooth onwards but if they make ut to full mouth they are usually ok after that.
Ive never noticed any difference in the lambs.
The vet thought it might be that they were just deficient when they were milking a lot and as soon as they dried up they were getting enough calcium again and thats why we didnt have any skeletal problems.
Oddly this never happened when we used to feed a lot of cake only when we moved to a more forage based diet for the ewes. It seems they were getting enough calciun from the sheep nuts when we were feeding heavily.

alot of grain in sheep nuts ??

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

JD-Kid said:
alot of grain in sheep nuts ??

Yes and they are balanced with all the minerals and protein

JD-Kid · Jan 16, 2018

grain is low in Ca and makes ewes pull more out of bones where they have it stored
are the bones fine in your ewes don't know the breed have not seen them frist hand

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

JD-Kid said:
grain is low in Ca and makes ewes pull more out of bones where they have it stored
are the bones fine in your ewes don't know the breed have not seen them frist hand

Must have been the minerals they put in the nuts that was keeping the levels up if thats what it was.
Yes the lleyn is quite fine boned especially rhe smaller ones ive had most trouble with. The bigger ones would have heavier bones than the smaller type.

Bury the Trash · Jan 16, 2018

hendrebc said:
for the ewes. It seems they were getting enough calciun from the sheep nuts when we were feeding heavily.

This.

look at those ingredients lists ...also just as importantly it has Mg in it.

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

Bury the Trash said:
This.

look at those ingredients lists ...also just as importantly it has Mg in it.

Ill find a list of infredients from last year pretty sure there would be mag and calcium in it but dont know how much

Yale · Jan 16, 2018

Have you changed your genetics in the last few years,if there was not really a problem before then it may have been bred in.

If you haven’t put lime on then I’d assume each year there will have been a drag of Ca from the land assuming it is not keeping up replenishing levels from existing soil stocks.

My thought would err towards genetics of poor teeth retention.

Bury the Trash · Jan 16, 2018

forgot P

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

Yale said:
Have you changed your genetics in the last few years,if there was not really a problem before then it may have been bred in.

If you haven’t put lime on then I’d assume each year there will have been a drag of Ca from the land assuming it is not keeping up replenishing levels from existing soil stocks.

My thought would err towards genetics of poor teeth retention.

Not really still the same type of lleyns as before. The only thing thats really changed is feeding less nuts.
Wouldnt have thought 3 and 4 year old ewes would be prone to losing teeth :scratchhead:

Forgot to say we have had a few cases of sheep with milk fever since starting to cut down feed we never had any before. They all improved with a calcium injection and went on fine.

JD-Kid · Jan 16, 2018

hendrebc said:
Must have been the minerals they put in the nuts that was keeping the levels up if thats what it was.
Yes the lleyn is quite fine boned especially rhe smaller ones ive had most trouble with. The bigger ones would have heavier bones than the smaller type.

we were getting legs breaking fast teeth wear gapping between teeth poor jaw forming
showing up later growth stages in jaws 8-14 months old
worms will have a efect too of ewes coming under higher loading

just know here some factors that have worked
lifting Ca levels in soils
adding long acting boron
Vit ADE inject pre lamb
better worm restance in ewes

was giveing ewes copper but think what the copper was doing was lifting worm responces almost like drenching
the vit ADE i question a bit if boron working better so it may be a case of over time that droped BUT have some leg probs again this year in blocks with low CA and high P levels

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

JD-Kid said:
we were getting legs breaking fast teeth wear gapping between teeth poor jaw forming
showing up later growth stages in jaws 8-14 months old
worms will have a efect too of ewes coming under higher loading

just know here some factors that have worked
lifting Ca levels in soils
adding long acting boron
Vit ADE inject pre lamb
better worm restance in ewes

was giveing ewes copper but think what the copper was doing was lifting worm responces almost like drenching
the vit ADE i question a bit if boron working better so it may be a case of over time that droped BUT have some leg probs again this year in blocks with low CA and high P levels

I have noticed a few (2 or 3) broken legs in lambs when i would very rarely get any before. I was putting it down to them hurting themselves somehow. Maybe the low calcium is making their bones weaker.
Have had some with teeth coming through gappy or their jaw being a bit odd shaped as well ive been culling them hard i hadnt thought it could be the calcium affecting it but seems obvious now

Have got plans to do some more soil tests and correct ph so calcium in lime should help there. Ill look into the vit injections pre lamb would need doing about now we start in less than 8 weeks

Worms xould be a factor if they are under some stress rearing lambs ill FEC them and monitor that.
Was thinking aboit something just to up levels for this year while ground dries out and i sort some lime out and ill look into the boron and everything else as well.

Bury the Trash · Jan 16, 2018

wonder if it also correlates with prolifically

hendrebc · Jan 16, 2018

Bury the Trash said:
wonder if it also correlates with prolifically

Possibly idont know. My vet thought it was because the twin ewes are milking more off (probably low calcium) forage than the singles are.

Nithsdale · Jan 16, 2018

hendrebc said:
Yes the lleyn is quite fine boned especially rhe smaller ones ive had most trouble with. The bigger ones would have heavier bones than the smaller type.

May be wrong but it sounds like an issue when the lambs are growing/developing which is then showing up once they are ewes

Calcium supplemeting ewes

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