Sobering thought for the day

davedb · Feb 11, 2018

Henarar said:
You don't necessarily need an accumulator why not a spring

Nart wrong with hydraulic brakes
Some just want to make things more expensive
Mostly those with loads of money

Reinventing the hydraulic brake system will be a dam site more expensive than just using air brakes if you price up air brake pots, commercial brake shoes and other parts they are far cheeper than the current ag equivalents

Henarar · Feb 11, 2018

davedb said:
Reinventing the hydraulic brake system will be a dam site more expensive than just using air brakes if you price up air brake pots, commercial brake shoes and other parts they are far cheeper than the current ag equivalents

I didn't say anything about reinventing them I just said there is nothing wrong with oil brakes and there isn't
So we are all meant to go out and buy tractors with air on are we. More expense for no need
Have you got air on all your tractors

betweenthelines · Feb 11, 2018

snarling bee said:
We all record every time we spray a field or move some cattle etc., what we all must do is write down what maintenance we do to our kit, its not that hard really, but it will help in the event of an accident and a police or HSE investigation.

Road Haulage Assn and Freight Transport Assn both provide low cost safety materials to their members-workshop posters, rules on driver hours and most importantly Daily inspection sheets.

IMO it would be a start if NFU started doing the same for any members who they insure.

For instance, if the NFU insure three vehicles for you, they should provide 365 x daily inspection sheets sheets for each vehicle, sheets could also provide info on what to check on trailers/attachments.

No one can make you complete the sheet, but if it's provided for you it's more likely to be done

Pheasant Surprise · Feb 11, 2018

betweenthelines said:
For instance, if the NFU insure three vehicles for you, they should provide 365 x daily inspection sheets sheets for each vehicle, sheets could also provide info on what to check on trailers/attachments.

No one can make you complete the sheet, but if it's provided for you it's more likely to be done

Or instead of killing trees, and posting reams of copies about the country how about a smartphone app that has the daily checklist built in, saves it all to the cloud so it can be checked by anyone from anywhere with the correct level of access.

If you really wanted it could be linked to a vehicle telematics system so that vehicle would only be started / moved once all the necessary checks had been completed - very similar to the black boxes certain insurers fit for U21 or inexperienced drivers.

All perfectly possible and doable in this day and age if it was deemed worthwhile.

betweenthelines · Feb 11, 2018

Lots of people are missing the point.

In depth discussion of various braking systems is not relevant to the legal case.

The point is that the brakes may have been faulty or not fit for purpose in this case and the defendants HAD NO SYSTEMS IN PLACE TO PROPERLY MONITOR AND REPAIR EQUIPMENT.

Likewise, there appears to have been no assessment of driver's individual skills and experience to see what, if any, help could be given to develop his driving skills.

I would suggest a basic theory (what various road markings mean etc) and practical (say 15 minute driver with loaded trailer) test be carried out for all prospective drivers.

Having done this type of thing in the transport industry I would say 1. the more experienced a driver is, the more bad habits they have 2. To many people are taught to pass a test rather than how to drive, 3. about 10% of drivers shouldn't be on the road as they lack the ability to pass even a basic assessment as outlined above.

glasshouse · Feb 11, 2018

sawdust said:
Maybe, I wasn't there so i don't know, but a 50 year old can still be inexperienced, so it's not age related!

Insurance companies dont agree, 19 yr olds are risky, hence higher premiums.
I see loads of young lads driving like maniacs through villages pulling 20 tons, when a lorry driver would crawl through.
I had a tractor run away when i was 17, only pulling 5 ton, but i never let it happen again

Traffic dodger · Feb 11, 2018

Pheasant Surprise said:
Or instead of killing trees, and posting reams of copies about the country how about a smartphone app that has the daily checklist built in, saves it all to the cloud so it can be checked by anyone from anywhere with the correct level of access.

If you really wanted it could be linked to a vehicle telematics system so that vehicle would only be started / moved once all the necessary checks had been completed - very similar to the black boxes certain insurers fit for U21 or inexperienced drivers.

All perfectly possible and doable in this day and age if it was deemed worthwhile.

That means you have to buy a smart phone for everyone, how much would that cost ?

glasshouse · Feb 11, 2018

i like the idea of a hydraulic release of a brake as hoses do burst or get burst even when new.
i was looking at a spool operated brake a few yrs ago when tractor brakes were giving trouble, so i could brake the trailer on its own on a steep descent,
spool brake on rear axle, tractor brakes on fron axle, but i reckon cops would hang me if there was a crash.

principal skinner · Feb 11, 2018

Traffic dodger said:
That means you have to buy a smart phone for everyone, how much would that cost ?

Surely when lives are at stake, the driver and innocent road users alike, within reason cost is irrelevant? What price do you put on your employees lives?

A smart phone costs very very little in the grand scheme of things and a cloud based system could be run off of a single phone/tablet with several logins for different staff members.

Traffic dodger · Feb 11, 2018

Not against saving lives but surely a piece of printed paper would work out cheaper then buying loads of phones.

davedb · Feb 11, 2018

Henarar said:
I didn't say anything about reinventing them I just said there is nothing wrong with oil brakes and there isn't
So we are all meant to go out and buy tractors with air on are we. More expense for no need
Have you got air on all your tractors

I’m not saying that no, but what I’m saying is new tractors should come as standard with air brakes and retrofit kits should be cheeper to encourage them to be fitted on second hand tractors, I’d like to put air brakes on my tractors mainly because you have a decent handbrake when parked on a sloping yard filling a slurry tank ect I’m always very concerned that if the tractors handbrake cable broke I could be in a real mess

Pheasant Surprise · Feb 11, 2018

Traffic dodger said:
That means you have to buy a smart phone for everyone, how much would that cost ?

Most people carry a smart phone these days. Certainly most 18 to 21 year olds will have one, doubtless.

The savings in time and labour in collecting, collating and record keeping could be incredible - record keeping would be instant and automatic. If you integratated with telematics, black box it could reduce the burden of proof on employers, that daily checks had been done. No check done, no machine move. You could also manage top speeds etc with some modest integration on newer tractors via canbus controls.

milkloss · Feb 11, 2018

They trouble is that all these ideas get pinned on everyone. Sure, a live Daily updated maintenance and inspection feed to the NFU mutual insurance to ensure insurance cover. A good idea for a fleet of 18tonne trailers at 50+K. What about the old boy going down the road with his 885 and 5tonne trailer after a day’s work with the 10ft cut Claas matador? Of course he has to be responsible and comply with the law but he’ll be the bloke that loses out or gets caught for not having ticked those boxes.

Traffic dodger · Feb 11, 2018

When I am out around farms in the truck I often can not get a signal so do not know where you get to the clouds. In the truck is a defect book, just tick the relevant boxes and sign after doing daily checks, no signal required.

principal skinner · Feb 11, 2018

Traffic dodger said:
Not against saving lives but surely a piece of printed paper would work out cheaper then buying loads of phones.

One tablet/smart phone assigned to the workshop/foreman/manager, different login and password for each driver. Job [emoji736] no need to buy loads of phones

Traffic dodger · Feb 11, 2018

Do all the tractors park in the same place every night ?

principal skinner · Feb 11, 2018

Traffic dodger said:
Do all the tractors park in the same place every night ?

On large farms/contractors yes I would guess so. Don’t be argumentative for the sake of it, we are talking about one/two or three smart phones or tablets which cost very little and as has already been pointed out the majority of people already have one and could access a cloud based system already

betweenthelines · Feb 11, 2018

So, we seem to have accepted that vehicle checks should be done every day.

Now just arguing about how to record it.

Progress!

Honest john · Feb 12, 2018

So far one could conclude that. The brake peddles were not locked. Trailer brakes not adjusted, probably doing over 20 MPH. Inadequate maintenance.

It's not looking good for the boss.

The silver lining is we will all be reviewing our own policies.

graham99 · Feb 12, 2018

betweenthelines said:
Road Haulage Assn and Freight Transport Assn both provide low cost safety materials to their members-workshop posters, rules on driver hours and most importantly Daily inspection sheets.

IMO it would be a start if NFU started doing the same for any members who they insure.

For instance, if the NFU insure three vehicles for you, they should provide 365 x daily inspection sheets sheets for each vehicle, sheets could also provide info on what to check on trailers/attachments.

No one can make you complete the sheet, but if it's provided for you it's more likely to be done

its a good idea .
but if you need to do all these checks maybe the steerer should be sacked and a driver put in his place

Sobering thought for the day

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