TS90 rear furrow width adjuster

Ley253 · Feb 21, 2018

arcobob said:
Ransomes had a small input in the development of match ploughing in the 60s when mounted ploughs were in their infancy (ten years old + or-). A lot more is known today or do you think nearly sixty years of development have achieved nothing? Does your plough look anything like commercial ploughs of the 1960s ? Let go of the fables and face reality because ideas develop and move on. Quoting a man with a Motrac pontificating about modern mounted match ploughing is like an expert on dinosaurs advising a dairy farmer about milk yield.

Bob, you really do need to step back! The man I am talking about was involved in the development of the mounted ploughs, and was still retained by Ransomes when in his 70s, as a trouble shooter! Ransomes would send prototype mounted ploughs up to Knighton for John to test, and TS86s to be set up. Thats where the photo of him, and two others which is the cover photo for Good ploughing was taken.
As I have said my plough only carries a similar amount of weights to a normal KV, they are not there to aid penetration, but to improve furrow packing by counteracting the tendency of the plough to roll around the inboard depth wheels

wuddy · Feb 21, 2018

Ley253 said:
As I have said my plough only carries a similar amount of weights to a normal KV, they are not there to aid penetration, but to improve furrow packing by counteracting the tendency of the plough to roll around the inboard depth wheels

Ok it’s yellow but it’s the same plough a “normal” kv. Your plough being a match plough, although derived from this plough will be a fair bit heavier to begin with before extra weight was added. To be fair once I am actually into the main ploughing of the plot I don’t really require the extra weight an I usually remove it! Where i do require it is to keep the plough balanced when putting the crown in as before I added them it would rock when the depth wheel went into a tram line and I could almost loose the front furr.

Howard150 · Feb 22, 2018

Petetheploughman said:
The TS 86 maybe the best plough made by Ransomes, but it didn't have the best wheel. The other negative is the price for one.

Very few about now Pete with original wheels or wheel assemblies.
Still stand by one of the best ploughs ever made by any manufacturer. Price is a secondary issue and has very little to do with performance, adaptability and capability. Not wishing to sound offensive but price is more of a personal issue really - the choice is yours - bite the bullet, make your own or go without! Look no further than the Classic Class. In many fields it could be renamed the TS86 class. Speaks for itself as do the prize cards associated with them.

They were considered expensive when new and the price was just above £300

There are lots still about with extra spacers in the frame and bodies made by other manufacturers to cope with World Style.

Timo@hattonfarms · Feb 22, 2018

There’s one here, all original just how Ransomes made it. Also @Cab-over Pete family have a lovely original one that needs to see the soil more

arcobob · Feb 22, 2018

Howard150 said:
Very few about now Pete with original wheels or wheel assemblies.
Still stand by one of the best ploughs ever made by any manufacturer. Price is a secondary issue and has very little to do with performance, adaptability and capability. Not wishing to sound offensive but price is more of a personal issue really - the choice is yours - bite the bullet, make your own or go without! Look no further than the Classic Class. In many fields it could be renamed the TS86 class. Speaks for itself as do the prize cards associated with them.

They were considered expensive when new and the price was just above £300

There are lots still about with extra spacers in the frame and bodies made by other manufacturers to cope with World Style.

Price is purely governed by supply and demand. There were not enough made to meet current demand because they were not commercial ploughs. I ran a match on Sunday on very uniform ground with no wheelings after stubble turnips grazed by sheep. The standard of ploughing was very good and the classic class with thirteen entrants finished as follows:-
1st Dave Curtis TS86 with TCN Total points 273
2nd Steve Framingham TS59/ Norlinc with TCN total points 267
3rd Mike Childerley TS86 with TCN total points 257
4th Josh Bullard (14 years old) TS59/Norlinc with TCN total points 256
5th Richard Parrott TS86 with TCN total points 252

Two out of the above 5 were using RWMs last year and have now reverted to TCNs. The result was a very fair reflection of the standard on the day. The progress being made by young Josh Bullard is phenomenal and was one of the highlights. Definitely a star of the future if other interests don`t distract him too much!

Timo@hattonfarms · Feb 22, 2018

Howard150 said:
Very few about now Pete with original wheels or wheel assemblies.
Still stand by one of the best ploughs ever made by any manufacturer. Price is a secondary issue and has very little to do with performance, adaptability and capability. Not wishing to sound offensive but price is more of a personal issue really - the choice is yours - bite the bullet, make your own or go without! Look no further than the Classic Class. In many fields it could be renamed the TS86 class. Speaks for itself as do the prize cards associated with them.

They were considered expensive when new and the price was just above £300

There are lots still about with extra spacers in the frame and bodies made by other manufacturers to cope with World Style.

Out of interest David, did your plough start of as an 86 or a 59?

Ley253 · Feb 22, 2018

wuddy said:
Ok it’s yellow but it’s the same plough a “normal” kv. Your plough being a match plough, although derived from this plough will be a fair bit heavier to begin with before extra weight was added. To be fair once I am actually into the main ploughing of the plot I don’t really require the extra weight an I usually remove it! Where i do require it is to keep the plough balanced when putting the crown in as before I added them it would rock when the depth wheel went into a tram line and I could almost loose the front furr.

I dont think there would be that much extra weight, apart from the Kv weights. the rolling landside is changed for a flat plate, two small wheels and a bit of box iron for the depth wheel, original wheel used as marker. two hyd rams for depth and cross shaft, thats about all the extras. The plough was built up from a collection of parts, some were yellow!

arcobob said:
Price is purely governed by supply and demand. There were not enough made to meet current demand because they were not commercial ploughs. I ran a match on Sunday on very uniform ground with no wheelings after stubble turnips grazed by sheep. The standard of ploughing was very good and the classic class with thirteen entrants finished as follows:-
1st Dave Curtis TS86 with TCN Total points 273
2nd Steve Framingham TS59/ Norlinc with TCN total points 267
3rd Mike Childerley TS86 with TCN total points 257
4th Josh Bullard (14 years old) TS59/Norlinc with TCN total points 256
5th Richard Parrot TS86 with TCN total points 252

Two out of the above 5 were using RWMs last year and have now reverted to TCNs. The result was a very fair reflection of the standard on the day. The progress being made by young Josh Bullard is phenomenal and was one of the highlights. Definitely a star of the future if other interests don`t distract him too much!

His sister is no slouch in world style, and thats with a Nuffield and borrowed plough!

arcobob · Feb 22, 2018

Ley253 said:
I dont think there would be that much extra weight, apart from the Kv weights. the rolling landside is changed for a flat plate, two small wheels and a bit of box iron for the depth wheel, original wheel used as marker. two hyd rams for depth and cross shaft, thats about all the extras. The plough was built up from a collection of parts, some were yellow!

His sister is no slouch in world style, and thats with a Nuffield and borrowed plough!

Ellie Bullard was away on holiday, perhaps ploughing in Somerset! I think the plough may belong to her grandfather who is also a fair hand at ploughing. Unfortunately not much world style this way and with the weight of the outfit she may be tempted to migrate to classic. Last year she was well ahead of Josh but I would not bet on that being the case now. Hats off to father Mark who devotes a massive amount of time and money to this and long may he continue to support them.

Ley253 · Feb 22, 2018

arcobob said:
Ellie Bullard was away on holiday, perhaps ploughing in Somerset! I think the plough may belong to her grandfather who is also a fair hand at ploughing. Unfortunately not much world style this way and with the weight of the outfit she may be tempted to migrate to classic. Last year she was well ahead of Josh but I would not bet on that being the case now. Hats off to father Mark who devotes a massive amount of time and money to this and long may he continue to support them.

I first met them at Ian Craddock`s event year before last. Then again at York,where Mark took details of my Hyd system which enables a form of constant pumping to be obtained in a Leyland/Nuffield. She did quite well at Bishops Lydeard, with a score of 206, finishing near, but not at, the bottom of the world style class,and there were no easy victims to be found in that.Morgan Davies established Hereford ploughman managed 190!

Petetheploughman · Feb 22, 2018

Howard150 said:
Very few about now Pete with original wheels or wheel assemblies.
Still stand by one of the best ploughs ever made by any manufacturer. Price is a secondary issue and has very little to do with performance, adaptability and capability. Not wishing to sound offensive but price is more of a personal issue really - the choice is yours - bite the bullet, make your own or go without! Look no further than the Classic Class. In many fields it could be renamed the TS86 class. Speaks for itself as do the prize cards associated with them.

They were considered expensive when new and the price was just above £300

There are lots still about with extra spacers in the frame and bodies made by other manufacturers to cope with World Style.

arcobob said:
Price is purely governed by supply and demand. There were not enough made to meet current demand because they were not commercial ploughs. I ran a match on Sunday on very uniform ground with no wheelings after stubble turnips grazed by sheep. The standard of ploughing was very good and the classic class with thirteen entrants finished as follows:-
1st Dave Curtis TS86 with TCN Total points 273
2nd Steve Framingham TS59/ Norlinc with TCN total points 267
3rd Mike Childerley TS86 with TCN total points 257
4th Josh Bullard (14 years old) TS59/Norlinc with TCN total points 256
5th Richard Parrott TS86 with TCN total points 252

Two out of the above 5 were using RWMs last year and have now reverted to TCNs. The result was a very fair reflection of the standard on the day. The progress being made by young Josh Bullard is phenomenal and was one of the highlights. Definitely a star of the future if other interests don`t distract him too much!

I agree the classic class is quite expensive to enter. That’s why I like the vintage class. I would be worried about damaging a TS86. I’m very tight. I would rather put money towards a tractor. Another problem is there are not enough matches down here for me to use it as now I’m back to about three matches a year.

Howard150 · Feb 22, 2018

Timo@hattonfarms said:
Out of interest David, did your plough start of as an 86 or a 59?

The 59 started out as a 59 but changed the rear of the frame to be similar to an 86.
The 86 started out as an 86
The robin started out as a robin and still is.
The RSLD number 12 started out as a 12 but is currently undergoing Howardian treatment. Watch this space!

Timo@hattonfarms · Feb 22, 2018

Howard150 said:
The 59 started out as a 59 but changed the rear of the frame to be similar to an 86.
The 86 started out as an 86
The robin started out as a robin and still is.
The RSLD number 12 started out as a 12 but is currently undergoing Howardian treatment. Watch this space!

look forward to seeing that. Hopefully getting this 86 out in the next few weeks for a practice now we’ve got the engine and steering sorted on my super major. but the latest member of the ploughing team was born on sunday so I’m abit distracted at the moment!

Howard150 · Feb 22, 2018

arcobob said:
Ransomes had a small input in the development of match ploughing in the 60s when mounted ploughs were in their infancy (ten years old + or-). A lot more is known today or do you think nearly sixty years of development have achieved nothing? Does your plough look anything like commercial ploughs of the 1960s ? Let go of the fables and face reality because ideas develop and move on. Quoting a man with a Motrac pontificating about modern mounted match ploughing is like an expert on dinosaurs advising a dairy farmer about milk yield.

Just been scanning through this thread Bob and in all fairness you seem to have been very harsh on Ransomes and one of their greatest fieldsmen, John Gwilliam. Not trying to pick a fight but whatever plough body you look at apart, from slatted, then at some time or other Ransomes made one similar. Possibly not to their own design but that of one company or another which they had the presence of mind to buy. Like it or not they were innovators at a time when ploughs as we know them today were in their infancy.

There are a few innovators currently amongst us, definitely with a lot more to offer but constrained by luddites and rules. There will always be that type of guy ploughing - people who enjoy the engineering as much as the ploughing. People who want to see work in its best aspect - true craftsmen proud of what they do. Every day a school day. Every day a competition

Like it or not Ransomes left a tremendous legacy of heritage, one which most countries currently ploughing would be proud of. Look round the prize winners at any local match Bob. Look at the number of prizes given to competitors ploughing with Ransomes ploughs. Does that not tell you something?

The thing that started the slide for the plough department at Ransomes was material technology. They were unable to compete strength wise with the new Norwegian imports. Sad also that the ultimate downfall was investing heavily in beet harvesting despite having the design for a new supercombine.

Just in passing but theres a railway bridge near home. Inscribed on it is the date 1834 - the year Ransomes brought out the YL! Ransomes - I am fairly sure their legacy will be here for a lot of years to come.

arcobob · Feb 22, 2018

Howard150 said:
Just been scanning through this thread Bob and in all fairness you seem to have been very harsh on Ransomes and one of their greatest fieldsmen, John Gwilliam. Not trying to pick a fight but whatever plough body you look at apart, from slatted, then at some time or other Ransomes made one similar. Possibly not to their own design but that of one company or another which they had the presence of mind to buy. Like it or not they were innovators at a time when ploughs as we know them today were in their infancy.

There are a few innovators currently amongst us, definitely with a lot more to offer but constrained by luddites and rules. There will always be that type of guy ploughing - people who enjoy the engineering as much as the ploughing. People who want to see work in its best aspect - true craftsmen proud of what they do. Every day a school day. Every day a competition

Like it or not Ransomes left a tremendous legacy of heritage, one which most countries currently ploughing would be proud of. Look round the prize winners at any local match Bob. Look at the number of prizes given to competitors ploughing with Ransomes ploughs. Does that not tell you something?

The thing that started the slide for the plough department at Ransomes was material technology. They were unable to compete strength wise with the new Norwegian imports. Sad also that the ultimate downfall was investing heavily in beet harvesting despite having the design for a new supercombine.

Just in passing but theres a railway bridge near home. Inscribed on it is the date 1834 - the year Ransomes brought out the YL! Ransomes - I am fairly sure their legacy will be here for a lot of years to come.

Robert Ransome was a Norfolk man, born 20 miles from where I live, and started in business in Norwich. I have the utmost respect for what the company did and have no intention of belittling it. What I take issue with is quoting persons, albeit at the top of the game sixty years ago, and inferring that off the cuff statements made then could and should not be challenged today. I am not denigrating John Gwilliam or any other expert of a bygone era. I am simply stating that we have moved on. You know that as you modify and change small aspects of a machine it interacts with other features and these in turn have to be addressed and fine tuned. Neither you nor anybody else will have the final say on how ploughs develop and this is what makes it interesting. Just because KV think they have made the ultimate board for world style has not stopped a host of ploughmen from contradicting their claims and making their own modifications.

Petetheploughman · Feb 22, 2018

YL stands for Yorkshire Light. Does anybody know what other letters like TCN, RWM, RND, TS stand for?
Or numbers like 59, 90, 86?

arcobob · Feb 22, 2018

I have just been scouring ploughing videos on You Tube and have reached the conclusion that 90% of ploughmen including Mick Watkins , John Milnes and most of the successful ploughmen of recent years have challenged John Gwilliam`s quoted statement regarding weights. Was John Gwilliam proved wrong or have these people all be deluding themselves?

Dealer · Feb 22, 2018

Petetheploughman said:
YL stands for Yorkshire Light. Does anybody know what other letters like TCN, RWM, RND, TS stand for?
Or numbers like 59, 90, 86?

This is the book you want

Ransomes & Their Tractor Share Ploughs by Anthony Clare

Will answer all your questions and more

The most interesting bit for me was that the tcn body was available pre 1959.

That making it in the vintage classes.

arcobob · Feb 22, 2018

Petetheploughman said:
YL stands for Yorkshire Light. Does anybody know what other letters like TCN, RWM, RND, TS stand for?
Or numbers like 59, 90, 86?

TCN is a progression from SCN which was originally named after the stone of Scone (check your Scottish history). RWM is Ransomes World Match, RND is the long Ransomes Newcastle body and TS, first introduced in 1931, stands for tractor share as opposed to TD, tractor disc.

Ley253 · Feb 22, 2018

Having been at matches and seen John plough, I believe neither of those would be in the same field! He had been retired for some time, when he borrowed Des Harly`s tractor and plough at Radnor Valley.As I remember it it was a T20 and fergy plough, though I am not sure, not that it really matters. What does matter is the fact that on borrowed equipment, in a strong match, John came out overall champion.And there were kv and Fisker ploughs competing.
He returned to horse ploughing at 72, and won his first three matches, with borrowed horses and plough. many are of the opinion that his rapid health decline and death was in s large part due to his overwork in this class.

arcobob · Feb 22, 2018

Dealer said:
This is the book you want

Ransomes & Their Tractor Share Ploughs by Anthony Clare

Will answer all your questions and more

The most interesting bit for me was that the tcn body was available pre 1959.

That making it in the vintage classes.

What page did you read that on? Are you confusing it with the SCN, introduced in 1951,though the TCN was 1964 (page 33) ?.

TS90 rear furrow width adjuster

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