Regenerative Agriculture

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 21, 2018

Barleycorn said:
According to Rothamstead we're all wasting our time!

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180228134114.htm

But aren't their plots cultivated every year?

#missingthepoint

"Moving from continuous arable cropping to a long-term rotation of arable crops interspersed with pasture led to significant soil carbon increases, but only where there was at least 3 years of pasture in every 5 or 6 years, record the researchers"

Sort of contradicts the overall conclusion a bit, doesn't it?

Kiwi Pete · Mar 21, 2018

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171123094330.htm

Kiwi Pete · Mar 21, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
But aren't their plots cultivated every year? #missingthepoint

"Moving from continuous arable cropping to a long-term rotation of arable crops interspersed with pasture led to significant soil carbon increases, but only where there was at least 3 years of pasture in every 5 or 6 years, record the researchers"

Sort of contradicts the overall conclusion a bit, doesn't it?

The bulk of the soil Carbon isn't actually in stable form, more "just passing" in terms of stability, due to being liquid and cycling rapidly.
It is like comparing asset values to turnover in some respects, rapidly growing perennial plants - pastures, meadows by any other name - are the best of both worlds.

The whole Vegan argument just collapsed

the only vegetarians that can save our planet tend to lie and ruminate, as opposed to driving a Prius containing more plastic than all the baleage in South Otago

Barleycorn · Mar 21, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
But aren't their plots cultivated every year? #

Interestingly Rothamstead's satellite centre in Devon hosted a multi species grass ley meeting a couple of weeks ago, and the benifits of carbon sequestration seemed obvious at that meeting. If you're building OM then carbon must be stored.
I see George Monbiot has jumped on thr bandwagon slagging off grazing as he wants to let a lot of farmland revert to scrub

Kiwi Pete · Mar 21, 2018

Barleycorn said:
Interestingly Rothamstead's satellite centre in Devon hosted a multi species grass ley meeting a couple of weeks ago, and the benifits of carbon sequestration seemed obvious at that meeting. If you're building OM then carbon must be stored.
I see George Monbiot has jumped on thr bandwagon slagging off grazing as he wants to let a lot of farmland revert to scrub

Monbiot is a mollusc!

CornishTone · Mar 21, 2018

Kiwi Pete said:
Monbiot is a mollusc!

I assume TFF auto-censored the word mollusc?!

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 21, 2018

Barleycorn said:
Interestingly Rothamstead's satellite centre in Devon hosted a multi species grass ley meeting a couple of weeks ago, and the benifits of carbon sequestration seemed obvious at that meeting. If you're building OM then carbon must be stored.
I see George Monbiot has jumped on thr bandwagon slagging off grazing as he wants to let a lot of farmland revert to scrub

It may be time to call him out robustly then

Barleycorn · Mar 21, 2018

Don t know if this will work, but the blokes an idiot.

https://video-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=d3aff47a70334c0bdb82570e6f4b2cda&oe=5AB29A3A

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 21, 2018

Barleycorn said:
Don t know if this will work, but the blokes an idiot.

https://video-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/26566493_329407094243732_8678626804828733440_n.mp4?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJybHIiOjM5NiwicmxhIjo1NjgsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoic3ZlX3NkIn0=&oh=d3aff47a70334c0bdb82570e6f4b2cda&oe=5AB29A3A

Anyone have a reference for the meta study he quotes?

Kiwi Pete · Mar 21, 2018

CornishTone said:
I assume TFF auto-censored the word mollusc?!

No, not at all, I meant what I said - mollusc!
...As in, blissfully unaware of the facts of life, or what his surroundings are made of

CornishTone · Mar 21, 2018

Kiwi Pete said:
No, not at all, I meant what I said - mollusc!
...As in, blissfully unaware of the facts of life, or what his surroundings are made of

Hmm, I could think of a few different words to describe him but they’d probably all be auto-censored back to the word mollusc so we’ll stick with that!

holwellcourtfarm · Mar 22, 2018

The undersowing experiment on last years maize is starting to look like it was a good idea

Now I ned to work out a cheap practical way to get clover, chicory etc established in it as well. Any ideas @Great In Grass ?

I'm still planning the trial this year to direct drill some maize with the aim of, eventually, being able to do so into established multi-species sward which would just be left to recover itself afterwards.

hendrebc · Mar 22, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
View attachment 649130

The undersowing experiment on last years maize is starting to look like it was a good idea

Now I ned to work out a cheap practical way to get clover, chicory etc established in it as well. Any ideas @Great In Grass ?

I'm still planning the trial this year to direct drill some maize with the aim of, eventually, being able to do so into established multi-species sward which would just be left to recover itself afterwards.

Looks good. There was an article about a drill for sowing grass inbeteen maize in the farmers weekly last week or the week before. I meant to tell you but forgot till now

Kiwi Pete · Mar 22, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
View attachment 649130

The undersowing experiment on last years maize is starting to look like it was a good idea

Now I ned to work out a cheap practical way to get clover, chicory etc established in it as well. Any ideas @Great In Grass ?

I'm still planning the trial this year to direct drill some maize with the aim of, eventually, being able to do so into established multi-species sward which would just be left to recover itself afterwards.

You could possibly do a lot worse than purchase a small used direct drill in need of some TLC.
Oversowing works OK but the smaller the seed the more precarious the situation, autumn oversowing with small seeds is generally far more reliable in our type of conditions, as spring generally either leads to them rotting or being swamped by the spring flush

which is why I simply jam on lots of cheap seed and hope

Would be interesting to see how the maize copes with competition, most advice is that it doesn't appreciate it, but often the folk who give the advice are repeating what they have heard from someone else, not having given it a go themselves

As the old man would say "it won't grow in a bag like it will in the soil" and I know that part is true!

As with all of the more experimental establishment techniques, you are just putting a bit more faith in the weather and conditions making it a success, eventually things work for the better, even if not as 'safe' as the conventional methods, you will learn some new things

Kiwi Pete · Mar 22, 2018

One thing that you could perhaps use is your grass harrows to setback the existing sward if you want to try the spring sowing - give it a heavy grazing and then a good harrowing to rub in the seeds and create that all-important disturbance, and then a roll for soil-seed contact.

Sheep are fantastic for doing most of those jobs too, that is the plan for here, borrow a thousand ewes for a week or two..

I know that isn't a go-ahead at Holwell Court though

CornishTone · Mar 22, 2018

Kiwi Pete said:
Would be interesting to see how the maize copes with competition, most advice is that it doesn't appreciate it, but often the folk who give the advice are repeating what they have heard from someone else, not having given it a go themselves :

I can assure you it really doesn’t like competition! Having seen numerous “trial plots” where growers have missed bits or been late with the post em it is very very noticeable where the weeds have knocked it for 6. Depends what you’re trying to achieve of course but maize really does like to get established with little or no competition.

Once it’s up and away you’d be fine as it can get it’s leaves up in the sun and warmth unhindered. But if the weeds or a companion crop get a foot hold before the maize it will never recover. If that is an acceptable compromise then fine, if not then a rejig may be in order.

CornishTone · Mar 22, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
View attachment 649130

The undersowing experiment on last years maize is starting to look like it was a good idea

Now I ned to work out a cheap practical way to get clover, chicory etc established in it as well. Any ideas @Great In Grass ?

I'm still planning the trial this year to direct drill some maize with the aim of, eventually, being able to do so into established multi-species sward which would just be left to recover itself afterwards.

Incidentally, how did you go about under sowing it?

Kiwi Pete · Mar 22, 2018

CornishTone said:
I can assure you it really doesn’t like competition! Having seen numerous “trial plots” where growers have missed bits or been late with the post em it is very very noticeable where the weeds have knocked it for 6. Depends what you’re trying to achieve of course but maize really does like to get established with little or no competition.

Once it’s up and away you’d be fine as it can get it’s leaves up in the sun and warmth unhindered. But if the weeds or a companion crop get a foot hold before the maize it will never recover. If that is an acceptable compromise then fine, if not then a rejig may be in order.

Maize just doesn't grow here to any extent, in my own mind I roughly equate it to beet, which seems to establish with reasonable success behind a subsoiler... just plant in the rip.

How about strip-till maize?

hendrebc · Mar 22, 2018

Or... chemical topping with a low dose of glyphosate give the grasses a headache enough to let the maize get away? No idea how it works or anything just throwing ideas around

CornishTone · Mar 22, 2018

Kiwi Pete said:
Maize just doesn't grow here to any extent, in my own mind I roughly equate it to beet, which seems to establish with reasonable success behind a subsoiler... just plant in the rip.

How about strip-till maize?

In my experience Maize, a bit like fodder beet, is easy to grow but difficult to grow well. It’s about attention to detail and sticking to the rule book. If you break the rules or drop the ball the crop will punish you mercilessly!

At the end of the day maize is a Mediterranean plant being grown in a non-Mediterranean climate. Breeding and Genetics can do so much, pumping plenty of DAP into it can do a bit more, but it is what it is. Above all it needs heat units to thrive and these can be scarce in your location KP and the UK.

I know one or two where having a bash with strip till maize when I left... but I left so didn’t see the results. In theory it should work!

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