Couldn’t agree more - some just don’t see do they
There is no luxury in my decissions, I’m running a business and not a hobby. I’m more contractor / tennant than wealthy land owner
impossible to farm?
- Thread starter bluebell
- Start date
Couldn’t agree more - some just don’t see do they
There is no luxury in my decissions, I’m running a business and not a hobby. I’m more contractor / tennant than wealthy land owner
We used to hire everything with an engine and it was the cheapest option and certainly the lowest risk as even used value was someone else’s risk
However hire rates increased and i find it’s generally now far cheaper to own (I think a few hire companies got caught with used values)
Over the years I’ve found new or near new kit run under warranty to be cheapest option pros and cons of both approaches - new suffers higher depreciation but used can generate big repair bills
Cab-over Pete
Member
- Location
- Kenilworth, Warwickshire
I didn’t state YOU have that luxury Clive. And I didn’t state you are a wealthy landowner. But again it’s interesting you assume I meant you.
I’m just trying to put the view across from smaller farmers who have a lot less options than large scale farmers. I have 200 plus customers who talk to me a lot about their farms and their systems, their problems and their plans. For the most part there just is not the capital available to be able to make the decisions they would like to, so there is often a make do and mend system in place. That would be necessity rather than risk management.
Short term lets on land and farms don’t help the situation at all either. Nobody will make long term investment on short term tenancies, which is understandable.
Furthermore, planning for the weather is not risk management either. In many cases it’s hope for the best. Again, necessity rather than anything else.
It’s just how it is and many cannot see how to change it or if they can they don’t have the means to do so.
It’s not a failing of the small or tenant farmer, because many of them are excellent farmers. It’s just they don’t have the certainty that owner occupiers can fall back on.
It’s a pity we don’t see eye to eye again, but the options you have posted just don’t apply to many others, no matter how many times you state them.
Courier
Member
- Location
- M62 - M1 - M18 triangle
So, it’s down to luck then
As a neighbour used to say “ If it weren’t fer bad luck I wouldn’t have any luck at all !”
But even then no-one would offer him a warranty on a 15 year old 1056 anyway [emoji6]
ThatsSomeSheep
Member
May I chip in, please?
Not quite sure what the fuss is about / why the argument re farm size vs risk management??
Every farming decision involves weighing up risk imho!
Risk management flows from the decision making process - simples.
As we seem to be discussing everything in terms of kit - quite simply each of us runs the best kit we can afford, and are (or should be) aware of the associated risks.
If I could afford all kit brand new with warranty, I would have less exposure to risk of break down. I can’t afford everything brand new, but I can afford maintenance / servicing etc.
Imho some need to take off the “farmers exptionalism” t-shirt. There are many books etc re risk management, applicable to all businesses.
TSS
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
they way i see it new kit DEFINATELY costs you big depreciation costs and service costs, secondhand kit OCCASIONALLY causes you big repair bills
I like that “farmer exceptionalism” phrase a lot ! Sums up so many threads / attitudes on here
We run businesses and are no different to any other really
Cab-over Pete
Member
- Location
- Kenilworth, Warwickshire
I hope it doesn’t read like an argument @ThatsSomeSheep , that’s certainly not how I mean it.
Your post is correct in that farm sizes differ and decisions really matter. The whole job can rest on a very small mistake.
Your post is correct in that farm sizes differ and decisions really matter. The whole job can rest on a very small mistake.
Well yes.....except agriculture is a price taker, unlike all other industries....
And who do we blame for that ?
ollandroverman
Member
- Location
- nr Kendal (The Lake District)
After avidly reading this forum since its inception, I see you are constantly labouring under this misapprehension.
Almost no other business in other industrys set their own prices. It is always your competitors that set the prices, and it is up to the individual business to decide if they wish to compete with them for customers who will buy their products or services.
If , for instance Ford doubled the price of a Focus, do you not think their sales would be non existent when there is plenty of alternatives on the market.
Farming is not unique.
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Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Try twice that much - admittedly in 7 weeks. I have at least a dozen olive trees that are lying flat on the ground and many, many more at precarious angles. The ground is so wet the roots are being pulled out of the ground whenever there is a decent wind.
To pickup on more recent posts in the thread, I spent a few years when an employee as Risk Manager for some fair sized organisations so I have a smattering of knowledge. Managing risk is much easier when cash to do so is available. Many smaller scale farmers, probably tenants rather than oo, simply have to go with what they have and can afford.
It is all very well arguing the pros and cons of buying new machinery on a regular basis, but I have only once bought a new tractor and I was 60 years old before I could afford to do that. Unfortunately I had to replace the clutch earlier this year. I would have traded it in a few years ago if I had had the spare cash to do so.
Other risks can be managed. I am not able to put in as many hours, and definitely not heavy manual work for several hours a day. I no longer keep livestock. My two main lines are olives and more recently almonds added to spread the workload more evenly throughout the year. Despite the olives falling over, it is something not normally experienced (there are trees on other properties in a similar situation, including some big pines) and not a risk I would have even considered.
Nor would I have anticipated that the incessant and heavy rainfall would have meant that it was impossible to apply the flower bud stage spray, full bloom and post bloom spray to the almonds. Nor that I have been unable to apply any fertilisers to either crop this year. I should now have applied 40% annual N for olives and 30% for almonds. Instead - nothing and no signs of being able to get on soon with rain forecast for another two weeks.
Sure I know how to manage risk, I think I am pretty good at it, but sometimes events or lack of cash affect that.
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Well if you don't like the topics discussed on here you're free to sod off and set up your own forum where you can discuss what you like!
And would they be happy to half the price and sell at a loss, I wonder ?
Also Shell/ Esso etc don’t set the price of oil, it’s a commodity and as with all commodities prices fluctuate
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Shell/Esso etc are just middle men, OPEC on the other hand..........
Cab-over Pete
Member
- Location
- Kenilworth, Warwickshire
I bet it's been warmer in Portugal!
ollandroverman
Member
- Location
- nr Kendal (The Lake District)
Im sorry ,but i don't understand your angle here.
NO business wants to sell at a loss. Do you? it sounds like a silly thing to say
If i stay with the car manufacturer analogy. It takes years and a huge sum of money for a car manufacturer to design, develop, engineer and bring a car to the market place. They will know their costs for doing so and the selling price they would like to achieve, but they are selling onto a free market place , and as such customers will vote with their wallets.
As i recall the Vauxhall Insignia cost 1 billion to develop, yet it's reception and sales were very lukewarm, and profit levels certainly were not good.
Price setters with low risk...i think not.
When i tender for work with my off farm business, i have to be in the same price ball park as my competitors, or offer something that my competitors do not, or i will have no work. If i take on work than makes me a financial loss, then i have either made a grave mistake with my costings, or i am a fool.
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