Another walker trampled

Happy · Oct 12, 2018

Not sure if I were down south I’d be want to be spending a lot on re-routing paths & putting up new runs of fencing.
With all the greening & public good policy coming out of Defra at the moment it’s surely only a matter of time until you get right to roam down there too.

One plus side it puts the onus for those accessing land to do so responsibly. You go into a field of cows with a dog and they don’t like it, your fault.

Lindell · Oct 12, 2018

Newspaper says he had 3 dogs with him, 2 he got to safety and went back for the 3rd. So a pack of dogs in the cattles eyes.

CharcoalWally · Oct 12, 2018

shearerlad said:
While we acknowledge that some viewers might have concerns about these scenes, we consider that most are likely to understand the risks involved in entering a field with cattle and would be able to use their own judgement to decide whether it was safe to do so. We don’t consider that the ad itself is likely to cause viewers to disregard what they know about safety in the countryside

Yours sincerely,

Alison

Alison Farrow

Complaints Executive

This paragraph looks pretty clearcut.

Even the ASA expects most to be able to understand the risks involved with walking through stock in the countryside, and so would seem to suggest that the public should themselves be expected to risk assess before entering a field.

That would seem to express an opinion that it can't always be the farmer's fault.

Grassman · Oct 12, 2018

Whether you agree with walkers and dogs on footpaths or not just make sure you are insured correctly.
Defending yourself without insurance could lose you your farm.

CharcoalWally · Oct 12, 2018

milkloss said:
Which is where education on a national scale is required. That’s not really a great move around edgy cattle, you have to let the dog go if the cattle show interest and you feel threatened.

I wonder if that's another grey area up here in Scotland, where the dog is supposed to be in reasonable control. If you have to let your dog go and it runs off causing trouble, it's no longer in reasonable control ,.

Looks like trouble either way.

Pieces_of_Eight · Oct 12, 2018

Do any other countries have the same level of public access to privately owned land as we do in the UK? :scratchhead:

primmiemoo · Oct 12, 2018

The sad fact is that many walkers, whether or not with a dog, are within their own little bubble when walking. I've noticed some who are plugged into iPods or the like, and might just as well be in a gym and using a treadmill with a video of countryside and air-conditioning.
Slow, feeble, little me could probably creep up, mug them, and be three fields away before they've noticed.

As mentioned upthread, there will be many who're mourning the man who died, and I'd add my condolences, too. Poor man paid a terrible price for a misjudgment.
I know farmers who've been knocked over by cows, pinned to the ground and injured. When I was 8, a yearling heifer tossed me a yard or so and stood over me as though deciding her next move. That could have been in play, I don't know, but it was scary enough.
I feel sorry for the keeper of the cattle as well.

A "Be Aware" campaign would be of benefit to walkers.

primmiemoo · Oct 12, 2018

CharcoalWally said:
I wonder if that's another grey area up here in Scotland, where the dog is supposed to be in reasonable control. If you have to let your dog go and it runs off causing trouble, it's no longer in reasonable control ,.

Looks like trouble either way.

If it's a matter of saving life and limb, then wouldn't there would be mitigation for the dog?

CharcoalWally · Oct 12, 2018

primmiemoo said:
If it's a matter of saving life and limb, then wouldn't there would be mitigation for the dog?

Then that bounces straight back to the point that the walker had placed him/herself in danger, no-one else, and as the ASA replied to @shearerlad , they expect the public to be themselves aware.

Yes, it's just a mess .

Fallowfield · Oct 12, 2018

Pieces_of_Eight said:
Do any other countries have the same level of public access to privately owned land as we do in the UK?

As far as I know every other country in Europe (including Scotland) enjoys greater rights of public access to land than England, Wales and NI.

hendrebc · Oct 12, 2018

Spencer said:
I stopped last week to ask a couple to refrain from exercising there’s dogs in a field without a footpath. To begin with he said they were just getting off the road for a passing car, I said I’ve been watching you for 5 mins and there wasn’t any car. He then said, “the gate was open so it’s open access for them. They are allowed in as I hadn’t shut the gate.” I asked if he honestly believed what he was saying? He then told me to beggar off, (less politely)! I reminded him that we were on my land to which he replied,”I live in the countryside fudge off I’m not talking to you.. “

Unfortunately this happens more and more frequently. A lot of the general public just believe they can and do go wherever they want in the countryside without any repercussions. I find it so disheartening the hostility in which most of them respond with when asked to stick to the paths.

Dog walkers are by far the worst offenders! There is a women who comes through our farm most days with a spaniel. It’s literally 200-250 yards away from her at all times, running round our farm like a demented mongrel! When asked to put it on a lead she just shouted at me “it’s not doing any harm” and carried on walking!
Most of them never even carry a poo bag but a lot that do just through it into a field. They want the access and right to “enjoy” the countryside but very few actually respect it when they’re in it.

It’s high time they brought back dog licensing in my opinion. Then all dogs in future should be dna tested so any fouling can be identified and owners prosecuted..

Tell her in a friendly way you have put rat poison down and you wouldn't want the dog to eat a poisoned rat by mistake and die so keep it on a lead please.
You don't have to put any rat poison down but she won't know that

worked for me a few times now next doors dogs don't come here anymore

Pieces_of_Eight · Oct 12, 2018

Fallowfield said:
As far as I know every other country in Europe (including Scotland) enjoys greater rights of public access to land than England, Wales and NI.

Because other countries have more state owned or common land?

I was meaning public access across privately owned farmland.

I know in France there are no privately owned sporting rights and the general public can pursue wildlife without worrying about whose land they are on at the time.

Edit: Pages 6-8 on this pdf briefly describe the situation in other countries.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...costs_and_benefits_of_farmland_walking_trails

Deereone · Oct 12, 2018

primmiemoo said:
The sad fact is that many walkers, whether or not with a dog, are within their own little bubble when walking. I've noticed some who are plugged into iPods or the like, and might just as well be in a gym and using a treadmill with a video of countryside and air-conditioning.
Slow, feeble, little me could probably creep up, mug them, and be three fields away before they've noticed.

As mentioned upthread, there will be many who're mourning the man who died, and I'd add my condolences, too. Poor man paid a terrible price for a misjudgment.
I know farmers who've been knocked over by cows, pinned to the ground and injured. When I was 8, a yearling heifer tossed me a yard or so and stood over me as though deciding her next move. That could have been in play, I don't know, but it was scary enough.
I feel sorry for the keeper of the cattle as well.

A "Be Aware" campaign would be of benefit to walkers.

Excellent post, yes These people walking around like zombies with noise wired into both ears are a danger to themselves; real sad people. When nature provides such great sounds, sights and smells, why mask it out?

muleman · Oct 12, 2018

primmiemoo said:
The sad fact is that many walkers, whether or not with a dog, are within their own little bubble when walking. I've noticed some who are plugged into iPods or the like, and might just as well be in a gym and using a treadmill with a video of countryside and air-conditioning.
Slow, feeble, little me could probably creep up, mug them, and be three fields away before they've noticed.

As mentioned upthread, there will be many who're mourning the man who died, and I'd add my condolences, too. Poor man paid a terrible price for a misjudgment.
I know farmers who've been knocked over by cows, pinned to the ground and injured. When I was 8, a yearling heifer tossed me a yard or so and stood over me as though deciding her next move. That could have been in play, I don't know, but it was scary enough.
I feel sorry for the keeper of the cattle as well.

A "Be Aware" campaign would be of benefit to walkers.

Yes i think an awareness campaign is needed, as i said before i cringe when they walk through the cows with dogs....if they knew that that very action is something that the owner of the animals would never dream of doing it would maybe make them realise the danger involved.

Danllan · Oct 12, 2018

livestock 1 said:
Well if that’s the case it should be at the walkers own risk then

I agree. But getting 'shoulds' in to law, when they take away what many regard as age-old rights, is easier said than done. What's your plan?

primmiemoo · Oct 12, 2018

muleman said:
... as i said before i cringe when they walk through the cows with dogs....if they knew that that very action is something that the owner of the animals would never dream of doing it would maybe make them realise the danger involved.

Now that is a very good point, muleman, and hadn't crossed my mind.

With experience, we livestock keepers are automatically careful of how we use the working dogs. It becomes second nature, I suppose.

livestock 1 · Oct 12, 2018

Danllan said:
I agree. But getting 'shoulds' in to law, when they take away what many regard as age-old rights, is easier said than done. What's your plan?

Most of the footpaths I’m my area or on our land are old access routes for postmen and owners of property which is now gone or derelict. They were not designed from the outset to actually be public rights of way. Some became public rights of way through ramblers campaigning, disputes over who’s using it and the public rights of way act.
I haven’t got a plan to be honest.
My sympathy goes out to all concerned very sad.

milkloss · Oct 12, 2018

Lindell said:
Newspaper says he had 3 dogs with him, 2 he got to safety and went back for the 3rd. So a pack of dogs in the cattles eyes.

Footpath should have been closed. I wouldn’t be too confident a bit of tape would have stopped it happening either.

Danllan · Oct 12, 2018

livestock 1 said:
Most of the footpaths I’m my area or on our land are old access routes for postmen and owners of property which is now gone or derelict. They were not designed from the outset to actually be public rights of way. Some became public rights of way through ramblers campaigning, disputes over who’s using it and the public rights of way act.
I haven’t got a plan to be honest.
My sympathy goes out to all concerned very sad.

This is the thing, footpaths are a 'political' tool for some and despite many being of no practical use whatsoever they will / must be kept 'on principal'. The only way you'll see some go will if there is a general 'right to roam'. Rock, hard place…

7610 super q · Oct 12, 2018

With right to roam, there's going to be more fatalities then ?

Another walker trampled

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